The Thief Has Returned [Spoiler Thread]

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Congratulations, you have survived to this day, which, considering the year we've had...was easier said than done.















Welcome to the official Return of the Thief discussion thread. This may go without saying, but SPOILERS! I wouldn't venture inside till you have completed the entire book.

How to use this post-
(1) Use the chapter threads to discuss chapters and the events therein individually. Each chapter sub-thread has the first sentence of that chapter. Links to sub-threads in the sub-threads will be added as needed.

(2) Respond to the post itself to discuss the book as a whole.

(3) Reviews and other long, detailed posts about the book may be better served by a new post to the community. Just follow sounis's spoiler policy and you'll be as golden as Costis's ten cups. I will add links to those under the second cut as they appear.

(4) This post is currently sticky, and will remain at the top of the community for a bit, so it's easy for everyone to find the most active threads.

Exordium

Volume One
Chapter One
Chapter Two
Chapter Three
Chapter Four
Chapter Five
Chapter Six
Chapter Seven
Chapter Eight

Volume Two
Chapter One
Chapter Two
Chapter Three
Chapter Four
Chapter Five
Chapter Six
Chapter Seven
Chapter Eight
Chapter Nine
Interregnum
Chapter Ten
Chapter Eleven
Chapter Twelve
Chapter Thirteen
Chapter Fourteen

Alyta's Missing Earrings

Other Sub-Threads
Dedication
Surprises
Disabled Representation
Screaming Thread
Many Points
Uh-Oh
Gen's Illiness #1
Gen's Illiness #2




Links to other ROT Discussion Threads
The Meddling of the Gods 10/7
Gen's Parentage 10/7
#ownvoices Review 10/8
The Twins 10/9
Lader & Gen's Childhood 10/10
Gitta's Kingdaughter 10/12
RoT Illustrations 10/14





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Comments

Exordium

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Unlike others who claim to be well-informed, I am an eyewitness...

Re: Exordium

[ccwtaylor.livejournal.com]

I thought this was a really interesting way to conclude a series told from a series of unreliable point of views! It made me instantly suspicious of the narrator's reliability...

Chapter One, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Though I was born to the house of Susa, I am Erondites.

RE: Chapter One, v1

[drollittle.livejournal.com]

I want to hug him.

Some authors would have made this chapter a lot more emo than it is. Pheris just states the facts. Tragic as they are, he (like Kamet) seems to take the way he is treated for granted.

(Here I am, leaving comments on the first chapters because Amazon is still shipping my book. It’s close though! Drive, driver! You carry the fate of nations in a little brown paper package.)

Chapter Two, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

In a small audience room made smaller by the granite pillars (...) the king of Attolia waited.

Re: Chapter Two, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Gen must have known, right? I'm 99.999% certain that he knows.

Does this "carriage" remind anyone else of the thing they used to bring Gen back to Eddis in QoA?

Ever heard of hangers, Gen? You need an entire closet for your coats? Like, Costis, I expect better of royal closets.

"The queen cut if off."
"Don't annoy the queen."
THEY WENT THERE!

There are TWO eggs in the bird's nest. Hmm...

Chapter Three, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

In the morning (...) Xikander woke me and told me to dress.

Re: Chapter Three, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

I am disproportionately proud of the attendants for getting Gen out of bed.

Gen, did you just say over the dead bodies of your entire family would Helen be dethroned? Your faith in your father astonishes me.

He has Provoke materia equipped, Irene. It's super effective.

It took me a half a minute to figure out why a hunting bow would be an insulting gift. I am an idiot...

Is this baron with the gold fruit the one who cheated on his taxes?

I'm surprised Herio's father let her do that.

Ye gods! Irene got him a HORSE! And Gen feeling legit betrayed that Sophos participated... XD It's just like a moving sofa, I swear! Sophos, you traitor!

"I have conceived a great desire to see him live to adulthood." SAME, Gen. Same. Pigeon, I think you just got adopted.

I actually wanna see Sophos get lectured about shooting the ambassador and not be rude about it. This must take place almost immediately after CoK if Melheret is still this peeved?

Chapter Four, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The next morning, the king informed his attendants that he would be getting up...

Re: Chapter Four, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, Pigeon! If someone does throw you out a window, there will be a giant trampoline there to catch you.

So... *sigh* Gen going through this whole dramatic petition the Great Goddess thing, basically, reads like this:

Gen: Great Goddess, my wife has told me I can't do a dangerous thing. Help me convince her that I will die of some other cause, so she will let me do the thing.

Hephestia and Moira: *looks directly into the camera*

Gen, if you die everyone is screwed! Also, Pigeon can see the gods. :)

Chapter Five, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Spring was well begun when Eddis and Sounis returned to Attolia for the Festival of Moira.

Re: Chapter Five, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Who is this Cenna person and why is she calling him Gen? Wait, a second... Curly, short hair, doesn't look like she gets into trouble but does... *gasp* Is this an author insert? I'm on to you, Megan!

I object to the notion that a lazy king's increasingly convoluted plans working accidentally to defeat his enemies is in anyway satire. That is legit the entire series in a nutshell.

Gen singing THAT! The pitcher! SOPHOS! Climbing up the wall! This book is giving me things I did not know I needed, but now cannot live without.

The second the Pent ambassador started getting creepy, I was like... is Irene gonna kill him or is Gen? Then it turned into the QT version of the run meme. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0d0u2836zY)

The whole scene has a very absurdest vibe from Gen leaping over the table to the Pent ambassador running into a wall. My favorite part is the attendants freaking out in the hall, not being able to decide who is murdering who.

Chapter Six, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The Pent ambassador was still demanding an apology as he was hustled onto a ship and dispatched home.

Re: Chapter Six, v1

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

bippidy boppity bye ambassador!

Chapter Seven, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Ion was attending the king (...) as he practiced his horsemanship on a course laid out near the Fields of War.

Re: Chapter Seven, v1

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

I have Ion feelings. Just saying.

Chapter Eight, v1

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

I already knew a great deal about Relius, all of it unsettling.

Re: Chapter Eight, v1

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

I read this like the meme.

"Everything I know about Relius I learned against my will." xD

Chapter One, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Costis was near enough to the capital that his name and his seal ring had been sufficient to convince the innkeeper to offer his best mount.

Re: Chapter One, v2

[brandy-painter.livejournal.com]

I feel like everyone here is sleeping on how this chapter begins with Gen wearing a leather vest with no shirt.

Chapter Two, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

There was no more talk of Emipopolitus.

RE: Chapter Two, v2

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

I mean, hello? Teleus and Relius???? That part made me squeal "Ooooo!!!" out loud.

What's their couple name? Telius? Releus? Tell me that they didn't get together because their names sound alike....

Chapter Three, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The day was bright and the sun's warmth appreciated.

RE: Chapter Three, v2

[manderelee.livejournal.com]

What do you guys make of that passage about the MoW having an affair with Helen's mother? That was really shocking to me! I always thought MoW was steadfastly in love with the Thief's daughter.

Chapter Four, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The next morning the king appeared to be deep in thought as he sat (...) to let Ion clip his hair.

Re: Chapter Four, v2

[trans-element.livejournal.com]

Fascinating chapter, and very much in line with what we know of Eddisian violence. It made me think of the scene in aCoK when Sophos finally loses his temper and throws Gen, and only then are they friends again. Gen builds trusting relationships with people after they hurt him physically: Irene, Costis, Relius, and now the entire court of Eddis. A very disturbing pattern, but this tradition explains part of it.

Chapter Five, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

To avoid waking the king as he slept, Ion opened the door to the bedchamber without knocking.

Re: Chapter Five, v2

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

Ion has no fear, apparently.

Chapter Six, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Only a few hours later, the soldiers began mustering on the Fields of War.

Re: Chapter Six, v2

[brandy-painter.livejournal.com]

"I did not become inappropriate all by myself!" is a top 3 quote for me now.

Chapter Seven, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The Medes had made it to the Leonyia Pass and were camped on the inland side of it.

RE: Chapter Seven, v2

[manderelee.livejournal.com]

Was anyone else really disappointed about the news regarding Stenides? I felt really sad about it; I squeed when I saw his name mentioned earlier in the book and was looking forward to meeting him on-screen finally.

*spoilers*
And then he died off-screen, and I just felt really sad.

Also, I noticed that my comments thus far have been about certain parts that bothered me; I'd like to make it clear I REALLY absolutely adored this book.

Chapter Eight, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The Peninsular armies had won the day because the men were rallying to their high king...

RE: Chapter Eight, v2

[(Anonymous)]

Who was the man at the cairn that Pheris and Gen saw? Gen says “I thought I saw a dead man...” right before the explosion. Was it Lader?

Chapter Nine, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

He lowered himself into his seat and leaned back by inches.

RE: Chapter Nine, v2

[(Anonymous)]

I'm only part way through this book. Still, this chapter really tripped me up. Helen is telling Sophos that Gen's father sent him away to steal the gift because Eddis' councel had just voted to kill him. WHAT!? This seems so OOC for these people. Yeah, Gen's cousins bullied him. Yet when he returned in TT the guards after realizing it was Gen, seemed to genuinely become concerned about getting him safely home in the capital. Why was Eddis so peeved at him dissappearing if she knew about the vote? This has left me with so many questions. This seems to be painting an entirely different picture of the country of Eddis. Any thoughts?

Interregnum

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Eugenides was standing in the dark, alone.

Re: Interregnum

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I need someone to assure me I am not crazy for seeing a Perilous Gard reference here! It’s the one thing I accurately predicted in this entire book! (Mostly, I was just swept along by the journey, not doing any predicting at all!)

Chapter Ten, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The tent walls were glowing in the light of the afternoon sun when the king rolled out of bed and opened his eyes.

RE: Chapter Ten, v2

[manderelee.livejournal.com]

How wonderful was it that Irene procured elephants for Gen? What a wife!

Chapter Eleven, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The camp was in an uproar when I woke.

Re: Chapter Eleven, v2

[miareads.livejournal.com]

I am seeing a lot of the battle Thermopylae in this chapter. The battle of Thermopylae, the battle that inspired that (weird, problematic) "300" movie

This felt like a retelling? subversion? I don't even know.

(If you already know all this, please forgive my long post)

In the actual battle, the small greek army stops the huge persian invading force at a bottleneck location called Thermopylae. The Greeks-mainly Spartans- manage to control the flow of the large persian army. They are doing well until Ephialtes, a local greek dude, informs the Persians of the small passage over and around the mountain. The persians sneak around the passage, surround the greeks and the greeks die.

Now, when the movie 300 retells the Thermopylae battle story, it goes a step further and portrays Ephialtes as a disabled, deformed Spartan who betrays the Greeks out of spite- He wants to be included in their army but the don't let him because of his disability.
Furthermore the movie has the audacity to imply that if the Spartans had done what was customary and thrown Ephialtes off the cliff when he was a baby (yes, the ancient Spartans were awful) then this wouldn't have happened. Therefore, this small act of mercy, letting the disable Ephialtes live, cost them this battle.

They mistake beautiful for being good. And they mistake being able bodied for being useful, valuable, worthy.

So when I read MWT version, the fact that Sejanus, who used to be a traitor and Pheris who had both betrayed Gen in the past and is disabled, are the two men who save the day, it made me cry. And just for this chapter alone, RotT will forever be on the top of all my book lists.

ooof.

Chapter Twelve, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The sun was rising as the queen of Attolia rode into the narrow passage of the Naupent...

Re: Chapter Twelve, v2

[freenarnian.livejournal.com]

The callback to the end of QoA just about finished me.

Chapter Thirteen, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Even in Stinos's protected harbor, the Etisian winds blowing across the decks (...) made the rigging hum.

Re: Chapter Thirteen, v2

[(Anonymous)]

when pheris reminds eugenides not to overreach, is anyone else reminded of the story of klimun and gerosthenes?

Chapter Fourteen, v2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Over the next few weeks, the Peninsula's soldiers put down their weapons and began felling trees to make room for a study fort.

RE: Chapter Fourteen, v2

[readsintrees.livejournal.com]

I managed to not cry during the whole book (though the death of Eugenides' father was a blow), and even the announcement of healthy babies didn't get me (I'm not much of a baby person). But, whew, when Eugenides looked down at his daughter and named her Eugenia, that clobbered me and I ended up sobbing all over the place. Arrghhh, I'm blinking rapidly just typing it now.

Alyta's Missing Earring

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

"Eugenides," said one of the fates.

Re: Alyta's Missing Earring

[(Anonymous)]

sorry for commenting anonymously, its been years since i've logged in so i have no idea what my password or even my username is. but reading this ending of the book i was reminded of the goddess that gen meets in Queen of Attolia, who tells him that he sacrificed at her altar once, but he cant recall who she is. her voice is described as rain, and he thinks she's a water goddess. I think/assume that Alyta is the identity of this goddess, since she's described as a goddess of rain?