Age Theory

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

I thought about the age thing a lot and developed a long (complicatedish) theory for it and jen94kp's post reminded me that's what I originally Googled these books for, way back in November 05. (I would have just commented but I didn't want to take up to much space).

Is it possible that Gen was only 12 in The Thief? After all, Gen's mother died when he was ten, right? I did wonder if the age was wrong and Gen made it up when he wrote his criminal record in Sounis but then I realised that on P230 (Collins Paperback)of The Thief, Gen says in reply to Sophos's question of if his mother really died when he was ten, 'Yes, but not out of [the window of] Baron Eructhes's villa'.



Anyway, the Evidence:

In QoA (p46, Collins Paperback), Eddis says, or rather, thinks 'When his mother died, Eugenides hadn't waited to tell his father his intentions to be the next Thief of Eddis. His father...had been enraged. Eugenides and his father had fought, both of them exercising their grief in anger with each other, in front of the entire court.'

In The Thief (p190 Collins Pb), Sophos asks Gen 'Was [your father] very angry when you turned out to be a thief'. And Gen replies mentally 'I thought of the fight when I had torn up my enrolment papers for the army'.

And also in The Thief (p226),Gen says to Sophos, 'I hadn't held a sword in the two years since I'd torn up my enrolment papers for the Eddisian Guard. During an argument with my father I'd sworn, in front of an embarrassing number of people, not to take a sword by the hilt unless my life was in danger'.

So my theory is: Gen tore up his enrolment papers when he was arguing with his father and this must be when he's telling his father he wants to be next Thief. It's obvious they argued regularly while they were grieving for their wife/mother. The entire court would explain the embarrassing number of people. Since Gen's mother died when he was ten, add the two years since he had torn his enrolment papers and Gen is twelve in The Thief. Ta daa!



Well, that took me forever, I almost had to read The Thief again to get those quotes. So, what do you all think?

Comments

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

it's a good theory, except we know a few things:

Gen was about ten when the King of Eddis died--he was definitely ten when the king was ill, and it's safe to assume he died within a few months. (re: Thief!)

We also know that, at the end of Thief, "In her [Eddis's] five-year reign she'd won the loyalty and love of her subjects." (Thief Puffin paperback p. 211).

so, if Eddis became queen when Gen was ten or eleven, that would put him between fifteen and sixteen in Thief. That would put him at about thirteen when he shredded his enrollment papers which, if you think about the feudal system, isn't that young an age to be beginning an army career. Yes, that would mean there were three years between his mother's death and he and his father's big blowout fight, but it was probably supplemented by smaller arguments along the way.

And...I'm going to be late for work if I don't run.

^_^

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Sorry Jade! Didn't see your comment. You've explained it much better. :)

would put him at about thirteen when he shredded his enrollment papers which, if you think about the feudal system, isn't that young an age to be beginning an army career. Yes, that would mean there were three years between his mother's death and he and his father's big blowout fight, but it was probably supplemented by smaller arguments along the way.

That's what I was trying to say. Not very well. :)

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Wow, good references. :D Emerald's come up with a slightly different theory:

Ages: In the Disney Adventures story, Gen is 10 and Eddis is just about to become queen: her father is ill and her brothers dead. In The Thief, it is mentioned that Eddis has ruled for 5 years, making Gen 15-ish in The Thief. In QoA, Eddis has ruled 7 years so Gen must be 17-18. In KoA, he must be 19-20.

Which relies on the Disney Adventures story. (Have you read that? It's a little clip of Gen, aged 10, just before his mother died I think. If you haven't, send me an email and I'll send it to you.)

Hmm, your theory does make sense in context with with the references, but I can't help thinking that 12 is just too young. I found 15 barely believable. :) And, considering that would mean Gen getting married to Attolia at the age of about 16 - er - it feels a little wrong.

Actually - I think we have a conversation about the quotes you mention months ago. Is it possible that Gen announcing his intention to be Thief, and the fight when he tore up his enrolment papers happened years apart? So Gen decided he wanted to be Thief aged 10 (the Disney Adventures story seems to back this up), but doesn't have the famous fight with his Dad where he swears never to take a sword by the hilt until he's 13? After all, he probably wouldn't have enrolment papers for the army at the age of 10...?

Er, I've babbled on for way too long. I think someone else needs to sort the age problem out. :)

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

KoA, p. 90: "As a ten-year-old boy, the Thief of Eddis could stop a grown man in his tracks with a single look."
That certainly implies that he was planning to be the Thief at age 10. At the very least, he was practicing The Look.
I agree, Rowana. I thought of Gen as a little older when I first read The Thief -- something about all that drinking in wineshops. Yes, yes, my father's Eastern European parents gave him wine for dinner when he was a child, but that's not quite the same as hanging out in wineshops...but I can live with him being 15.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

:) I think I'd edge it up a little to 16 actually. That seems about right to me.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

Thank GOD this makes sense. I have been working with approximately those numbers since I kind of messed around with them in my head last spring. I suggested them to my mum and she said she thought he was rather younger, which kind of frightened me what with marriage and age gap and all, and then led tp my mum saying, over the phone, "you have your fantasy, I have mine," which was one of the most disturbing moments of my life.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

and then led to my mum saying, over the phone, "you have your fantasy, I have mine," which was one of the most disturbing moments of my life.

LOL!

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

*Seconds Jade's reaction*

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

Well, that's not fair. I've never read the Disney Adventures story. But how old is Ambiades then? Because it says somewhere he's several years older than Gen. What about Sophos too, he's only 'younger' but I've always thought he was about nine? But if Ambiades is about 17/18, that doesn't make sense at all because there's only 4/5 years between them.

[jen94kp.livejournal.com]

I thought there was about 5 years between Sophos and Ambiades with Eugenides somewhere in the middle of them. Sophos at 14, Gen about 16 and Ambiades 19.

I don't think there is a correct answer. If MWT wanted us to have an exact age for the characters she would have written that into the stories. I think the age question is nice for discussion, but one of the nicest things (I think) about these books is Eugenides can be about any age of a teenager or young adult.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

I've always put Sophos at 13 or 14. Boys are still smallish then, mostly.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Yes, I thought the same. About 14, or 15 at the very most.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry! Ro will send it to you if you ask her. I spent years trying to figure out their ages to join the comm 6 months ago, have Checkers give me the story, and have realisation dawn. I also find myself making the characters older as I grow older. I think: Gen has his hand cut off at the same age as I am?! That is seriously scary.

[9mil.livejournal.com]

so if we're going with jade and rowana's theories about gen's age, and my not wanting to look back in the archives to see if i maybe completely forgot something, how old would eddis be, as well as attolia, since she sees herself as "too old for him?"

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I think Emerald worked this out too. Eddis was two years older than Gen (something about her having ruled for 7 years - she's 17 or 18 in The Thief, as Gen is 15 or 16), which means she was 12 when she became queen. Attolia must have been around 20, I think.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Noooooo! Eddis was pure speculation. Asides from her being a few years older than Gen, I don't know anything!

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add to the age discussion, so I will just say...

ICON LOVE!!!

[karatelunch.livejournal.com]

WORD. Huge icon love! *pirate squee*

Can't sign in

[(Anonymous)]

All my hard work for nothing then. Oh well, it was fun. I still can't get my head round Gen being older than me mind. Lol, and no way is Sophos the same age!

~CrazyViolin