(no subject)

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

I suppose I should introduce myself. >.> I am a friend of mycenaeth. Specifically, I am the shy friend whose illustrations she posted a while ago. ^.^; Mycenaeth lent her copy of The Thief to me years ago, and I adored it. When I decided my illustration thesis was going to be a series of cover illustrations, I knew The Thief had to be included (if only to see the look on Mycenaeth's face- priceless, I tell you XD <3)- so I went out and bought my own copy of the book to reread and check as reference. It was the last illustration in the series that I completed, and by far my favorite.

Now, this was a year ago. And since then I've been desperately trying to find the two sequels in stores, to no avail. I don't know if they're just not being carried as much, are insanely popular, or I just have terrible luck (I believe it's the latter, but I can hope it's choice two ;D), but I wasn't able to find them. But I've been very much in a reading mood for the past few months so eventually I just gave up and ordered them online. XP

Having finished them I wrote a lengthy little ramble about them. It's what I do best. XD A review of sorts (with no regard to spoilers, so be warned), that Mycenaeth insisted I post here. I rewrote it a little since you guys are a different audience than, you know, my eljay friends, but it's similar.


First off, I must say I have come to the conclusion:

Gen : wine :: Jack Sparrow : rum

Yes.

I very honestly imagined Jack's manner of speaking in many of Gen's lines. Especially the drunk lines. He was still very much his own character through the entire thing, but equally hilarious, and there was the same method of bringing up old jokes or references that were so poignant the first time that you can't help but remember them, even if they were made an entire book (or movie) earlier.

"Stop whining."

and

"Go to bed."

come to mind, specifically.

:D

Fives words spanned between two books that made me laugh so hard I had to stop reading because they completely blew my concentration. XD

But now unfortunately I'm going to go into my main topic at hand:

I did not like Queen of Attolia so much.

It was a good book, well written, don't misunderstand. But something was not... right. I do not like it unto itself. It fits nicely in the sequence, but it is... a bridge, too rickety to be comfortably traversed. D:

The Thief was amazing and by far still my favorite. Gen is made out to be a fool and an idiot, and every other character- and even the reader themselves for the most part- believes this to be true. Written in the first person, you can't help but believe what you are being told as truth.

But oh, he is such an excellent liar. <3

King of Attolia is the second verse of the same song. Everyone around him once again believes him to be inept, but now- now *you* know better. But you are no longer inside his head. You have no idea wtf he is thinking, and therefore no idea how much is accident versus how much is intricate planning.

Apparently, he also does very little by accident. Sheesh. XD;

But Queen of Attolia... I guess I should explain that I like to think of Eugenides in a split sort of way. There is Gen and there is Eugenides. I adore Gen, the charmingly foolish yet somehow astonishingly intelligent boy; but Eugenides is not that same trickster. He is calculating and serious and stone. The Thief stars Gen, Queen of Attolia stars, mostly, Eugenides, and King of Attolia contains equal appearances of both.

I knew two things I probably shouldn't have, going into Queen of Attolia. One was that by the end he falls in love with and marries Attolia, thus becoming the King referenced in the title of the next book. The other was that he loses his hand.

I had no idea how closely the two points were involved.

I had assumed that he would lose his hand around the climax, possibly in a thievery plot gone wrong, or a swordfight he unwilling partook in. The last thing I expected was for it to occur at, very nearly, the opening of the book... at the hands of Attolia herself.

He then spent half the book incredibly depressed. This was distressing but understandable, and despite the nature of it I probably enjoyed this part of the book the most (that and the part directly after it, involving the asplodings and the magus stealings. >:D) The boy hiding in his library, yelling at the people trying to help him... even though it was of a serious nature and not just his usual idle tantrums, this was a Gen I recognized.

Far more problematic was, after his eventual recovery from his depression, his insistance that he was in love with the woman who had cut off his hand, who had caused him that misery, who had made him contemplate his own life (specifically its worthlessness, and his taking it.) She caused him nightmares- nightmares that he awoke from screaming. When he was captured by her once more, he was so terrified that he tried to kill himself rather than be left to her devices.

...this is love?

I found it rather unsettling; upsetting.

Now, I have read other arguments in Sounis for and against Attolia and Gen's sudden relationship. I know someone linked to another rather anti-Queen of Attolia review recently. But I know there are a lot of supporters, and to head you off I want to explain that I understand your reasoning. Although it seems rather clear at the end of The Thief that he despises her, I can see that maybe Megan herself hadn't decided they would fall in love. I can accept Gen's later infatuation- that she grew on him somehow- and how he acts on it. Sneaking around Attolia, leaving gifts and teasing her- it is very Gen, and I think it's adorable. XD Attolia's reaction is also understandable. She is the ruthless queen, who doesn't know what to think of this nuisance of a boy. When she catches him, she not only has his connection to Eddis and therefore threat to Attolia to consider in her punishment, but also his teasing and humiliation of her. Yeah- that most definitely did no good in alleviating your sentence, Gen.

Eugenides himself knows and understands this. He repeatedly defends her, stating that it was a suitable- if antiquated- punishment for a thief; that it was within her rights. I may even have accepted their relationship if he had forgiven her at that. But despite what his words say, the nighttime screams and his thought of suicide rather than accepting capture a second time- this terror he develops turns his words into yet another of his many lies.

Attolia's love... that I can accept. She acts like a child who broke her favorite toy in anger and later regretted it (ironic how the manipulative Eugenides hides his true character in public childishness, whereas the publically mature Attolia is rather childish in private.) But Gen... Why, Gen? Why her? Your torment, your nightmare and greatest fear?

I sympathize with Eddis. I'm very glad that Megan wrote her point of view in there, else I would have just thought everyone had gone crazy for not seeing what was so wrong with this situation. Eddis regretted putting her Thief in such a position, having to marry his nightmare. She wondered at why he was doing it- *how* he could be doing it; offered repeatedly to find another way, without marrying the two.

But no, Eugenides wanted to be married to his tormenter. Gods know why. (And they do, apparently- having set up the entire fiasco! I did like the end, where he speaks to the gods. I'm not sure if this was the case with everyone who read it, but I knew very well they did not betray him. They hurt him, but they hurt him so that he would go where he needed to be, and do what needed to be done. Rather like Attolia herself, really- willing to take a harsh means to a necessary end.)

But like Eddis, I deeply care for and want what's best for Gen. And I hated, absolutely *hated* seeing him do this to himself.

But you know, it works. I don't know how, but it works, and I almost hate him for it. For making me question him- really, at this point I should know better than to question Eugenides, because I loved King of Attolia. Not only does it bring Gen back in full force, but it did miracles to smooth my distress over their marriage. They are, realistically and believably throughout the entire thing, in love. She can still be harsh and cold, but we all know Gen of all people needs someone like that to keep him in line. ;D And she needs him: a thief to steal away that abhorrent mask of hers.

So! I come to my final conclusion about the entire thing:

Each book is very much like the country it takes place in.

Sounis representing The Thief, and Attolia itself as King of Attolia. Thus leaving Queen of Attolia as the connection, the passage through the mountains that is Eddis' very same crucial role to the other two countries. It is a necessary bridge, if in my opinion a rickety one, to King of Attolia, where Gen returns to shine with all his tricks and idiotic genius. Attolia herself becomes a much more likable person, and the references both of them make to what happened are filled with regret and apology and even, still, hurt- and I love every bit of it. <3

...

Sophos had better not be dead, though. Being "missing" is rather similar to being "stolen" and I'm crossing my fingers that a certain Thief is responsible. But he seemed as shocked himself, and it would seem like such an obvious a conclusion... But Sophos was just such a sweetie, and would be so adorable with tomboy Eddis. D: <3

That's really all I have to say (as if it was so little, hah!) For reading through all this, a small bonus: Mycenaeth showed you all the illustrations I did, but didn't have any images of the final bookcovers. I only had enough time to make four, out of the six total illustrations, but The Thief was of course included. So, here are some photos of the finished products~

Comments

[karatelunch.livejournal.com]

ZOMG YES. I have thought for years that Eugenides and Jack Sparrow are cut from the same ridiculously awesome cloth (and also that a younger Depp would make a fantastic Thief, but that is a different digression entirely).

The romance between E & A has always worked well in my eyes, and I've never really had a problem with Q of A - liked The Thief, but fell utterly in love with The Queen of Attolia and read it thirty times in the space of five years. I think Eugenides likes the paradox that the relationship provides; they love/fear/require for survival/are wildly annoyed with one another in equal amounts, and that's what makes things poignant and interesting. I also think they're more alike than most realize at first.

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

a younger Depp would make a fantastic Thief

...That actually hadn't even occurred to me, but it's so true! XD

[sandtree.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people tend to forget that it wasn't just Attolia who tormented Eugenides, it was the other way around as well. There's also the fact that Attolia having his hand cut off wasn't really disproportionate to his crime, especially for someone who had to rule like Attolia did. They couldn't read his mind, or know what exactly he would do, and the point is basically that if you can get close enough to the Queen to leave stuff beside her bed, you can get close enough to her to kill her.

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know he was a complete threat to her as well. She's fairly justified in cutting of his hand, I think. Like I said, I would almost have been fine with it, but his reaction to her after that just didn't read "love" to me. >.o Which was the point- you were supposed to be misled. But the trickery was so strong in this one that I found it much harder to flip my perception the way I did with the other two books. It's just a personal opinion- I see all the signs, but I still find it hard to accept, you know?

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Actually she should have killed him for his crime. He was a spy from another country - a country A. was on the brink of war with - and was able to go anwhere he wanted in her Palace, including her room. If they were to go to was, Eddis would win simply by killing the Attolia.

As soon as N. suggested the hand thing A. jumped on it because she was in like with Gen and didn't want to kill him (we know she has no problem with killing, look at her first husband's grave) but had to punish him in some horrible way.

[emmaco.livejournal.com]

I am not feeling intelligible enough to comment on your post except to say the covers look even better printed out! The spines look so nice. Are they the actual books inside the covers?

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

Not the actual books, no. I wanted them to all be similar in size- height at least- so I used some of my father's machinist books. XD; The one under The Thief is about metalworking, though I desperately wanted to use the one on locksmithing as a secret joke to myself. XD (The locksmithing book had a reddish cover, so I used it to match with Winds of Fate instead.)

[emmaco.livejournal.com]

I was wondering how you got them all so evenly sized! Locksmithing would have been great :)

[estarria.livejournal.com]

Wow, those covers are just gorgeous. :)

I think that one of the reasons Eugenides tried to kill himself when Attolia captured him the second time is that he thought she hated him, and was brokenhearted over it. For that matter, this is even mentioned specifically...I don't have my book with me, so I can't remember the exact quote, but he lists some things he expects Attolia to take from him (tongue, ears, etc.), and then says, "But worst of all was knowing that she would be the one to take those things from him. Because she hated him. He could tell her he loved her..." etc. Anyway, I can see how he could love her and still want to kill himself when she caught him again.

While I love QoA myself, I can easily see why many people don't. It's true that in real life, having someone cut your hand off tends to dampen any feelings you might have had for them. :)

Oh, and the anti-QoA review that was discussed here recently? The reason the reviewer didn't like QoA was that she thought the Eugenides/Attolia romance came out of nowhere...as in, the author never hinted at it. People have been critiquing it because, in fact, there are quite a few (admittedly subtle) hints pointing to the impending romance, scattered all throughout the book.

About Eugenides and Attolia being more alike than most people realize: I've been rereading KoA, and I noticed that too. Eugenides can be downright frightening and ruthless when he wants to be (like when he talks to Relius in prison...or even when he confronts Sejanus). But he shows mercy too, whereas mercy is not Attolia's natural tendency, to say the least. Even taking that into account, Eugenides almost scares me more, because he is very unpredictable. Attolia's predictability has enabled her to run a country ("if we break this law, the queen will hang us from the palace walls"), but Eugenides has power because no one can guess what he will do next.

Hmm...sorry, didn't mean to write a dissertation there. :P

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

Ah, yeah, I saw all the hints- mostly because I knew the eventual outcome. But the end just didn't feel as solid as the ends of The Thief and King of Attolia, to me.

I see your point about his being heartbroken, and I do remember that part too. I think there are mentions to that effect a few times, aren't there? But all the factors just don't quite settle themselves, in my mind. If he was afraid of her, it was difficult for me to fathom that he was heartbroken as well. I think it's a very personal interpretation; I would personally be rather glad to get away from them, if they were capable of hurting me so much- not only with the physical punishment, but through the fear as well. He just had a lot of emotions running together that clashed too much to make very much sense to me.

I think maybe there were just a few red herrings laid out that were too strong for me to forget about entirely, and it confuses my acceptance of the final outcome. XD That's probably why the other reviewer thought it came out of nowhere- it's not that the hints for their love aren't there, it's that the hints against their love are so influential. x.x

[empmai.livejournal.com]

I've never read the book as anything other than Gen and At. love story. So I would loved it if those who read it as an anti-love story could point out the red herring's.

Thanks

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

Pretty much anything before Gen reveals he loves her? Everything written before that point was specifically meant to be interpretted in two ways, to retain that surprise ending. Was he afraid of her because she was a fiend from hell or because she broke his heart? Did Attolia cut off his hand because she didn't want to kill him or because it sent a harsher message to let him live like that? Did she continually repeat that she *should* have killed him because well, now he's causing more trouble- or because if he's alive, she still has to question her feelings for him?

The answers to all these questions may seem obvious to you, but to those of us who saw it conversely they are just as obviously the other case. It's a very opinionated issue; which angle you personally felt was more convincing before the truth was revealed.

Jumping in...

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I think that one of the reasons Eugenides tried to kill himself when Attolia captured him the second time is that he thought she hated him, and was brokenhearted over it.

I think you're right - I thought that was part of the reason why it was so awful for him to have his hand cut off in the first place too. Though I still find it interesting that everyone said that he should have been hanged, really, and would've been if Nahusaresh hadn't intervened.

Oh, and the anti-QoA review that was discussed here recently? The reason the reviewer didn't like QoA was that she thought the Eugenides/Attolia romance came out of nowhere...as in, the author never hinted at it. People have been critiquing it because, in fact, there are quite a few (admittedly subtle) hints pointing to the impending romance, scattered all throughout the book.

I think the first real sense of love that we get, comes when Eugenides thinks back to watching her dance. The backstory seems very important here, and since we didn't get any in 'The Thief'...perhaps Megan should write another little Gen story, around that incident. :)

[avian-xj.livejournal.com]

I like your description - a bridge. When I was reading QoA for the first time, that's kind of what I thought of it as. It was hard for me to see Attolia as NOT evil, but by the end of the book, I decided that it was an amazing book that could totally stand alone. Though I do love QoA now, Thief is my very favorite. I guess because, like you said, we get to see in his head and what he's thinking, and we still don't guess the ending or see what a good liar he is :D

Your covers are beautiful. Now i have this urge to go make a set for all three queen's thief books :)

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

I think a big reason why I see QoA as such an in-between sort of deal is because it stands out as being different from the other two- The Thief and King of Attolia are so similar; they're both essentially about Gen being a genius in the guise of an idiot. XD; QoA really does do an excellent job of leading Eugenides from being the boy thief to becoming a king, too. He goes through a lot of growing up.

Thank you, about the covers. X3 I would be tempted to make covers for the other two books just for fun... but the QoA and KoA covers are so pretty as is. D: <3

[rowana.livejournal.com]

The covers really do look fantastic printed out.

I think I ought to mention - we asked Megan once when she decided to write QoA, and she said that it was after 'The Thief' won the newbery award, so I guess she wasn't planning the romance whilst writing her first book.

I think you make some good points, and I can definitely see why it's difficult to accept Gen's love for Attolia, after all that she does to him - and after continued evidence of the fact that he still fears her. You mentioned that the fact that Gen was still scared enough, (and justified enough in his fear), that his father was willing to kill him, rather than leave him to Attolia's supposed intentions. This actually made it easier for me to believe that he could love her. Another commenter mentioned a quote that went something like: "But worst of all was knowing that she would be the one to take those things from him. Because she hated him."

I guess it is quite a personal response - we're used to seeing events through Gen's eyes, from the thief, and we still are doing that to a huge extent in QoA. What did you think of the fact that he still seems to fear her - in some ways, perhaps more instinctively than anything else - in KoA. There was the bit after the assassins when he jumped away from her touch.

Thanks for a thought provoking post. :)

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

::nod:: I read someone else mention that, about QoA not having been planned before The Thief. That's why I said I could see that maybe Megan herself hadn't decided what way to take things. =3 I'm okay with that part- I can understand how she could have gradually grown on him despite his apparent dislike in The Thief.

Oh, yes, the part when he jumped at her touch in KoA definitely still pulled at me. It's just so distressing to me that he could be afraid of the woman he loves. ^.^; But her own reaction helped that scene immensely, I think- the way she pulled back. It made me realize she was just as afraid of hurting him again. I really like King of Attolia, it definitely resolves a lot of the issues I had left over regarding their marriage at the end of QoA. I trusted that Gen really loved her- though I can't understand *why*, that fact is still evident- but I still wasn't sure if I could trust Attolia. It was a great relief to discover that I could. :D

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Someone I know said that they were afraid, after finishing Queen, that Gen and Attolia would kill one another by the next morning. :)

The covers are fabulous. You have quite an immense talent.

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

Haha, I'm still not entirely sure they won't, with their tempers! XD

And thank you for the compliment~ <3

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

It's interesting that you saw QoA as a "bridge." When I read it, there was no KoA, so I could hardly perceive it that way. In fact I was surprised when KoA came out (though exceeding happy!), because QoA had seemed to end things very nicely. I personally like QoA best of the three, though they are so different I hate to make a choice.
One thing I think you realize on rereading QoA is that Eugenides's hibernation /depression isn't just about the pain of losing his hand -- though that would be enough for me. I see it as a time when he is trying desperately NOT to still be in love with Attolia. She has smashed that dream utterly, it seems, yet he can't give it up, and he knows that's crazy.
To me what makes QoA so amazing is the journey Gen takes. He really has to overcome something big here, and he does.
Would I be in love with someone who had cut off my hand? I doubt it. But I don't think we read about Gen because we're in the mood for reading about someone ordinary. He's larger than life, and so are his troubles and his love.

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

I see it as a time when he is trying desperately NOT to still be in love with Attolia.

Yes, definitely! You can tell the final straw is when he asked Eddis for permission to leave- but goes instead to Attolia. I think that's when he finally makes his decision; he quits wavering and firmly decides he can't forget about her (which is what makes me so unhappy. XD) Then he goes ahead and devises that excellent plan of his to kill two birds with one stone: He is not only helping his country, but also trying to get close enough to Attolia to offer his love to her.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

I adore those covers. They look even greater on actual books. I find QoA much easier to read after reading KoA and also saw it as a bridge. I adore how Gen becomes more like the old, carefree Gen in KoA. QoA is amazing, I love it, but I've always found it incredibly emotionally wrenching to read.

Sophos is too adorable to die. There's a theory involving bears and Sophos somewhere...I'll let you find it or I'll get accused of corrupting people.

Welcome, officially! You could sell those covers and people would buy them! They rock!

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

XD That theory sounds excellent, I will have to look it up.

Thanks about the books. <3 I would never feel comfortable selling prints of them, just because I respect the authors so much it doesn't feel right to sell something based on their creations (I've argued with my illustration professor incessantly about this, haha. It's basically allowable by copyright, but not by conscience. ;D)

But maybe, someday in the far future, there will be another reprint of the books and I'll have the opportunity to do the covers. Oh, dreams~ XD;

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I wouldn't feel happy selling the dolls I made of the characters. I meant it as a compliment more than a real suggestion. Have you emailed Megan telling her what you've done? It's just the kind of thing she (and most authors) love.

She replies fast and is awesome but not scary. I'm rooting for your covers. I absolutely love them.

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

I haven't but Mycenaeth has come very close to doing so for me. I'm... shy about doing things like that. XD; I would love to someday go to a book signing or something and give her a printed copy personally, though. <3 That would be so awesome~

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Hey, I've decided (and I have Queen Ro's approval for this) that when the next book comes out we're going to try to get as many of the regulars here in one place and have a party. Megan will be invited but somehow I think she might want to avoid the hoards of rabid fangirls. At the moment it's between Greece and Ohio. Megan lives in Ohio but Greece is a more amazing place. Look! http://granite.sru.edu/~lmiller/greece/lion_gate.jpg

[empmai.livejournal.com]

Greec eis a much better party city than Ohio, but Ohio is cheaper :)

Does anyone know if M. is working on the next book?

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, plus we could play "find the Gen lookalike". Like an Easter egg hunt but more fun and have picnics under the olive trees. Ohio is cheaper for you? Greece is cheaper for me (I'm in the UK) but I want to go to the USA too. So many awesome people live there.

I know there's going to be a 4th book and that Megan said she might write something else first. That's all. She's being very secretive. I'm not surprised since we're already (though not seriously) planning a party. Maybe we scare her with our fannishness?

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I think what I'm trying to say (above) is that Eugenides feels the same horror we do at his loving the person who maimed him. The nightmares aren't "Aaugh, my hand!" They're "Beautiful girl dancing, Aaugh, my hand!" I think he's feeling as if his love is twisted and wrong, just as you say. But it doesn't go away, so he comes around to thinking he can make it work, that maybe if he loves her enough, she'll trust him, but he still worries that he's crazy and sick to be following this path. It's only at the very end that his love for Attolia is validated as being exactly what is intended by the gods, and fully reciprocated as well.
Hmm, I'm not sure that's any clearer, but what the heck.

[(Anonymous)]

Forgot to say, I love your artwork also!
And I forgot to log in again...
-Philia

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I understand what you mean completely. I really do have no problems with their relationship by the end of KoA, but I think QoA just turned everything so fast that I just couldn't readily accept it. It was like an emotional train wreck. XD After finishing KoA I spent some time thinking over both books and could see most of these things, and although they still might not make me entirely happy, I accept them- but I'm not sure I would have been okay if I had stopped reading at QoA. I needed KoA to back things up for me. It's kinda of a personal taste- I needed that downtime between them to reflect on how things panned out the way they did. =3 I think I'll let it settle and reread it in a few months time, though.

Hee, thanks about the artwork. When Mycenaeth originally posted them, I was floored by everyone's reactions. I'm pretty insecure about showing things off like that. XD;

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

The nightmares aren't "Aaugh, my hand!" They're "Beautiful girl dancing, Aaugh, my hand!"

*bursts out laughing*

it...*wheeze* should be...*giggle* that...funny...*coughsnortlaugh*

♥

Fascinating discussion. Maybe one of these days I'll leave a real comment...

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

But it doesn't go away, so he comes around to thinking he can make it work, that maybe if he loves her enough, she'll trust him, but he still worries that he's crazy and sick to be following this path./i

Good point. Plus, he had to have a tremendous amount of faith in Irene; faith that she could be "redeemed" by love and that she would change. She changes tremendously after their marriage. She opens herself up to someone who loves her, but who could hurt or betray her at any time.

[crazyviolin.livejournal.com]

Wow! I completely agree with you! You have managed to put so much of my opinions into words. And finally! Someone else who dislikes the Queen of Attolia.

And yet, I have nothing more to add to this discussion.

[cabin-boy.livejournal.com]

XD! Well, nice to know I am not alone. =3