More QoA

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I've been re-reading - again - and some things have struck me - again.



I had just been reading a post on Sounis in which someone pointed out that Gen's statement, "Whether I am on a rafter three stories up or on a staircase three steps up, I am in my god's hands. He will keep me safe, or he will not, here or on the stairs," was one of the strongest statements of faith she had ever read. (I can't remember in which post it was or I'd give credit where it's due).

Then I was re-reading QoA (again), and came to the part where Gen has just been captured. "My God, he thought, I am so frightened. O my God, if you will not save me, make me less afraid. He fell on the steep trail."

So - Gen has just asked his god, the one who keeps him from falling, to make him less afraid, if not to save him - and the next thing that happens is that he falls. That must have seemed like an answer to his prayer, and not a positive one. No saving, no comfort - utter abandonment. Imagine how he must have felt, poor lamb! (Leslie huggles Gen protectively, and casts deeply reproachful glances at someone whose identity shall remain hidden behind the initials MWT).

Also from QoA, I always marvel at how Attolia, after Nahuseresh has "rescued" her," manages so many double entendres, and without his noticing. "So long as your are near me as well, I want him [Teleus] close," she says, and Nahuseresh assumes it's because she doesn't trust Teleus. Her conveying the message that she will marry Gen to his father, with Nahuseresh right there. It's brilliant!

(Of course, that leaves me trying to read meaning into absolutely everything. Like, why did she tell the MoW that maybe he should drink less? And, when she says "I think Eddis does not understand my attachment to my allies the Medes . . . She leaned forward in her seat, the fabric of her long skirts bunched in her hands as if she were holding the prisoner's attention with them," is she trying to show that she is in the Mede's clutches, as her skirt is clutched? Or am I reading too much into it?)

And I love, love, love it when she rips Nahuseresh's ego apart by showing him how he has completely underestimated and misunderstood her, *and* that she's going to marry Gen. "'You will make that boy Thief king?' he said. 'When you could have had me?'" In the elegant patois that so enriched my junior high school years, "Oooooh, *burrrrrrn*!"

Comments

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

"So long as your are near me as well, I want him [Teleus] close," she says, and Nahuseresh assumes it's because she doesn't trust Teleus.

I took that (on subsequent readings, not the first one!) to mean she didn't trust Nahuseresh, not conveying a msg about Gen.

oops

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

sorry. I mis-read. You were making two separate observations there.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

But the fall on the trail WAS a direct answer to his prayer -- after that someone laughs and Nahuseresh looks amused and then "White-hot hatred burned through Eugenides. If he was still without hope, at least he could think clearly again." His god did indeed make him less afraid, by causing his fear to be replaced by anger.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I love that bit, actually, because it's Gen's relationship with the gods in a nutshell -- they look as if they're abandoning him while really giving him what he asks for.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Except that he's still so afraid he'd rather have his father strangle him than face what he is sure is going to come.

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

My God, he thought, I am so frightened. O my God, if you will not save me, make me less afraid.

That line really struck me the last time I re-read it too (which was... a couple weeks ago, I think). I had to write it down. Its another great statement of faith for me--we can't always expect the gods to save us, but we can ask them to make us more able to get through our trials.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

That's a line that I sometimes mutter to myself--kind like when I say "I'm so dead" and mentally launch into "Dead is dead, he told himself over and over again," sometimes when I say "Oh my God" my head starts going "My God, I am so frightened..."

...

♥

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

This is exactly why I love these books =) These layers of meaning.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I think Eddis does not understand my attachment to my allies the Medes

I thought Attolia was afraid that the MoW wouldn't understand that the message was that she HAD no attachment to the Medes, unlike the impression she had been giving Eddis all along. She clutched her dress as if she could, by will alone, force the thought into his head.

The drinking part I assumed was just a dig at the MoW, treating him like an old, alcoholic, unsuccessful soldier, rather than Eddis's clever Minister of War. Remember, she didn't want anyone to figure out who he was so the Medes would let him leave to pass the message along. Really, Attolia was doing Eddis a huge favor by choosing the MoW to take the message. Not only did she release him from capture, she gave him back to Eddis to help with strategy and leadership of the coming battle.

[(Anonymous)]

The bit that always gets me is the one about being so afraid it feels like the world has turned to stone.

~Feir Dearig

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I thought that was what the drinking comment was, too, until I started trying to find double meaning in absolutely everything. Yes, she did Eddis and herself a big favor, because his leadership undoubtedly helped with the battle.

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

I always thought that was one of the reasons Nahuseresh was so upset, and caught on to what was going on so quickly-- she'd sent back Eddis's Minister of War! She'd have to be either extremely stupid or extremely treasonous to do that.

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

This is completely off of your topic, but this just struck me. Nahuseresh sent assassins against Gen, not Attolia. I bet he still hopes to become King of Attolia.

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

oh, excellent catch, Willow!

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

IS HE INSANE.

...oh wait.

Oh God, he really does hope to become KoA. EEK.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I hadn't ever thought of that! I mean, Nahuseresh really has more reason to hate Attolia than to hate Gen; yes, Gen was his successful rival, but Attolia was the one who really humiliated him, so killing her would have made more sense unless it's as you say and he still hopes to become king.

I wonder who's keeping N. posted on what's going on in Attolia; and thinks the message telling him about how Eugenides is now really king and oh by the way boy have we been underestimating him would make for fascinating reading.

[pcw-rcw.livejournal.com]

Going back momentarily, to Gen's heartfelt plea:

"My God, he thought, I am so frightened. O my God, if you will not save me, make me less afraid."

And philis_fan's comment:

...the fall on the trail WAS a direct answer to his prayer -- after that someone laughs and Nahuseresh looks amused and then "White-hot hatred burned through Eugenides. If he was still without hope, at least he could think clearly again." His god did indeed make him less afraid, by causing his fear to be replaced by anger...

We agree with philia_fan's analysis. We think the thing that provides the proof of it, is the sentence which follows immediately after, "He hit face first, and the stones in the mud cut into his cheek." We take this to mean that Gen fell on (or near) the 'feathered' scar on his face (the legacy left him by his god, Eugenides, in TT) and thus was a sign that the fall (with the resulting effect of Gen's fear being replaced by anger) was due to it being the god Eugenides' reply to Gen's prayer.

As far as Gen still being afraid enough to allow his father to strangle him later as aged_crone remarks:

...Except that he's still so afraid he'd rather have his father strangle him than face what he is sure is going to come...

If, however, one looks at the phrase in QoA, "...the Thief was quietly being strangled in the chains of the prisoner [Gen's father, of course] just behind him...", it can be seen that it doesn't necessarily indicate that that was what Gen wanted, just that is was what his father thought was the best thing to do at the time. There is no indication that Gen asked his father to strangle him and it would certainly have been impossible for Gen to object, while he was being strangled, if his father caught him by surprise (as his father might well have done out of kindness' sake).

Just our thoughts on the subject, Perri and Richard.

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

*snickers at the dark humor that is the MoW thinking it would be better to strangle his child than let him live in the hands of Attolia*

*sobers*

can you imagine trying to make that decision?

in any case, *applauds your analysis*

p.s. if you don't mind me saying, every time I read one of y'all's comments, I'm torn between comparing you to monarchs (using the royal We), or the Borg. Ahem. *coughs* I'll just be in the corner, then.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

"Quietly strangled" to me seems that he isn't fighting against it at all. I realize that at some point there'd be some automatic struggling, but it doesn't sound as if Gen's even trying for a chance to say, "It's okay, I'm not as scared as I was, no need to kill me."

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I like the thought about the stones cutting into his cheek.

Whether Gen rally wanted to be strangled is an interesting question I hadn't thought of before. He certainly has good reason to want to die quickly rather than be blinded and maimed first. BUT Ornon tells us in KoA that Eugenides never gives up, he just persists until he wins. Having himself strangled sounds to me like giving up, and not very typical of Gen.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Another thing: Gen starts raising one eyebrow, which Eddis eventually figures out must be because he's emulating Attolia.

So, if he's imitating his beloved, do you suppose she picks up any of his habits?

Like, is there a sudden rash of missing earrings in the court of Attolia, and somewhere in the royal apartments a secret stash of them that the Queen occasionally gloats over?

teehee

[(Anonymous)]

Like, is there a sudden rash of missing earrings in the court of Attolia, and somewhere in the royal apartments a secret stash of them that the Queen occasionally gloats over?

LOL!!! OMG I found that REALLY FUNNY! I'm not quite sure why [?] and I almost fell off my seat. [oops]

[(Anonymous)]

I figured that the brief exchange between Gen and his father when Gen stops the battle and the Eddisians surrender to the Medes had something to do with making sure Gen didn't fall into enemy hands. He knows alot, at this point in a pretty desperate war, it would be politically disasterous to have him captured. Not to mention personally disasterous to be tortured to death.

This second thought will probably be unpopular, and doesn't really relate to the "Perhaps you should drink less" comment, but I think Gen's mother was a drinker. His father is awfully sensitive to any sign of Gen drinking too much or relying on drink to get through his dark days. Which strikes me as very close to how alot of families cope with the legacy of an alcoholic parent. And the whole bit of a trained thief falling off the roof after dancing under the stars has always seemed like only part of the story to me.

Yes, the gods needed to move her out of the way so Gen could become Thief (just like they needed to move Helen's three brothers out of the way, even the younger one). But the Gods often seem to fold their actions into real world circumstances that make events "logical" to the mortals trying to live their lives. So I've always wondered about that fall.

- ELM -

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

That's been brought up before -- the exchange between Gen and MoW after the battle, which we don't hear. Someone proposed that they were planning right then for MoW to strangle Gen, but I disagree. If everyone agreed he'd be better dead, why not kill him on the spot instead of waiting? I'm more inclined to think that MoW suggested it and Gen said, "No, she might show mercy," and thus the look towards Attolia and the bitter laugh.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Thought of something else: When Eddis is talking to Attolia (and basically playing matchmaker), Attolia says something along the lines of, "You don't understand. He hasn't lied to you." Then Eddis points out how very wrong she is.

Thereupon I tried to count up times that Gen had lied to Attolia, and, really, I didn't find any. In Thief, he lies in a way by not telling her he has Hamiathes' Gift; but what lies does he tell her up to that point in QoA? Mostly he just drives her crazy by slipping through her palace whenever he wants and giving her earrings. I know he has a very well-earned reputation as a liar; but, again, when does he lie to Attolia? Help me out, here, people!

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Wasn't she thinking of his claim that he loved her? And that it wasn't his revenge?