In Which I Presume...

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

...To write a long and convoluted post as my first to Sounis. I hope this is alright! 

I have just finished "The King of Attolia," and before I process my thoughts on the book itself, I wonder if I could pose a question to the wise readers here at Sounis. This has been bothering me throughout  the series, and now that I have (alas) finished, I feel I ought to ask.

So. Why is "The Queen's Thief" marketed as Young Adult literature?

To clarify, by this question I do not, in any way mean to imply that true YA or Children's novels are precluded from brilliance. Anyone who has read enough of these overlooked genre is well aware that there are many, many spectacular books that fit into this category. What I mean is that this series (specifically the latter two books) simply don't seem to fit into what are, as far as I can tell, the general boundaries for YA literature. I am certainly not a publishing expert; I merely speak as a curious reader.

Interestingly, I do think that "The Thief" fits better into the YA category than into general adult fantasy, for the following reasons.

• The plot is fairly linear, following a journey/quest style narrative.
• The main character is, while not quite a child, most likely around older-adolescence.
• Other characters in the story are children or peers of the main character. 
• A mentor-figure is present in much of the story.
• The quest carries "coming of age" implications.

None of these points alone makes a story a YA novel, of course, but I think here they do combine to fairly classify "The Thief" in this category.

Contrast this with the next two books.

• The plots are anything but linear; they follow the characters lives, rather than a specific journey.
• Eugenides may still be an adolescent, but there is little childishness about him in QoA. (He does come across as slightly younger in KoA, but I would hesitate to still call him a teenager.)
• None of the supporting cast are children, in fact, all are notably senior to Eugenides, with distinctly adult responsibilities. 
• There is no significant mentor figure.
• Eugenides certainly grows and changes through his struggles, but, at least to me, it seems that he is dealing with 'post-coming-of-age' difficulties. 
• And of course, it is worth noting both the increase in violence and political complexity in QoA and KoA, giving these books quite a different tone than "The Thief." (I wouldn't say that this rules out classification as YA, but I think it does represent a shift.)

The only real reason I can come up with for the continued YA classification is that perhaps the publishers did not want to split up the series into different genres. What do you all think?

 

Comments

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

One thing that's happening in the book world is that the YA category has been shifting much older recently. There are more books aimed at older high school and college students now. And there has always been more leeway in YA fantasy for having adult protagonists.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

For which I am SO GRATEFUL. Since, um. I write about college students a lot. (But REALLY do not write adult books.)

I was talking to my friend earlier about how the conventions of good fanfiction, which turn up as a style that hasn't typically appeared in published literature, are starting to do so--all the fandom babies are growing up, and we're allowed to muss up boundaries and styles in a very pleasing new way.

[twtd]

I would imagine that your thought about not splitting up the series is probably what happened. It's probably because they're published by Greenwillow Books, an imprint of HarperCollins, and they focus specifically on children's lit, so that's how they're geared toward promoting their books. If they wanted to transfer them to HarperCollins and publish them as adult books, they'd probably have to change all sorts of things (from contracts to personnel to who knows what else, though I have no publishing knowledge and this is just conjecture). So I would imagine that it's almost entirely a business decision and not really an aesthetic one.

[opheliastorn.livejournal.com]

I personally would classify The Thief as a Children's book and the other two as YA - but maybe we have different expectations of both classifications. The YA at my local library has never shied away from including "hard" books, in terms of both content and presentation.

[sandtree.livejournal.com]

Well, first of all, YA isn't really for children. Children can read it, but it's aimed at an older audience, anywhere from 12 - 19. Then you've got the fact that the first book in the series started as YA, so it makes sense that, unless there's some huge shift in tone or subject matter, the series would remain YA, regardless of the age of the characters; and that's another point, the age of the characters is never explicitly stated, although we can assume, like you said, that Gen is probably no longer a teenager in KoA.

I think the terms you give for what makes a book YA are kind of narrow, anyway. Sure, you could say that a lot of YA books follow a linear plot, and have a mentor character, and have characters that are younger, and so on, but that doesn't have to be true for every book in the category.

It's a tricky category. I think people are still figuring it out. And actually, at the bookstore where I live, 'The Thief' and its sequels are now stuck in the children's section, which I think is ridiculous, because they're going to miss out on selling to a lot of teenagers, but that's another story...

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

You live in a bookstore? Luuuucky.

[sandtree.livejournal.com]

XD

I do grammar real good.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

:D

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

Hey, I practically live in a bookstore! :D

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

I live in the bookstore and the arts building. I sleep in my apartment.

[filkferengi]

That's the arts building they designed especially so the students have to rely on revelation to find their way around.

;)

[kulai-raito.livejournal.com]

humm why are we saying adult fantasy when there's the teen section.. or does it mean the same thing..

yea I agree that the YA market seems to be broadening though I keep seeing, if i'm remembering properly how under the YA signs there always the age of (9-12)something like that to make me feel old in the book store.
However when I look at the text for the book, with all its excellence, does feel like it fits in the YA section for some reason.

[bluestalking.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised you've run into 9-12 as the age category for YA. Most YA sections in bookstores and libraries try to hedge their bets, putting books for a guessed-at 9-12 audience in both children's and young adult. The bulk of YA, however, aims at the 14-19 crowd, more in thematic content than anything else. I would not, for example, give anything by Robert Cormier (quintessential YA) to a 12-year-old--even an exceptionally intelligent one.

[kulai-raito.livejournal.com]

Yea, there's is a wide selection in YA though. I think they should just change the sign. Good to know that YA aims at the 14-19 cause that's when I picked up the book. However they make the teen section look more towards 14-19.

[ricardienne.livejournal.com]

YA seems plausible to me: my library and local independent bookstore, for example, distinguish "childrens" from "middle school/middle readers" from "YA", with the latter containing books that are quite "adult" in their themes.

To me, QoA and KoA are not quite "adult" books. I would argue that they are quite linear (Eugenides has one or more secret plans, which work out in the end), and there is a moral center (more or less) that is held to: Eugenides and Irene are quite ruthless, even cruel when necessary, but that word necessary is key. Neither is tempted to overstep in power, or be arbitrary or selfish; there is pretty clear delineation between "good guys" and "bad guys", etc.

On the other hand, my library puts "Thief" into Middle School (appropriate, in my opinion), but then QoA into YA (probably due to the increase in violence). This rather annoyed me, but then they put KoA back into Middle School!

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

I guess the hand-cutting is more violent than the assassination attempt, but I also don't understand that logic...

(Random side note... I read the first two chapters of KoA to my roommate last night! She's loving it, and I am too! :-)

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Queen and King are "older" than Thief, but instead of looking at the YA elements that are or aren't there, what about the adult elements? There's a marriage, but no intimate details. There's violence and torture, but the assassination attempt is mostly played for laughs, and the torture isn't described in too much detail. Seems like the books are YA not so much for what's there, but for what isn't there, but would be if they had been written for adults.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

I agree - it's a children's/YA series because it isn't grossly inappropriate for them. No sex scenes, no dwelling on the blood and gore, very little cursing (or rather, when people curse we don't hear the details), etc. Actually, from what I hear about YA books, which mercifully I don't have to read, TT, QoA and KoA are a lot milder than most YA books.

Velcome, dahling.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

First of all, welcome to Sounis! Always great to have another convert reprobate member!Alright. Now onto your question.Yay yay yay!     I have a multitude of opinions on this subject, but I've never really had an excuse to wax poetic on them. So *hem* here is the pontification.     I think of Children's lit as being about 5-12. Naturally, you'll drift to different parts of the children's section as you age, but I, at least, stayed in the kid lit area until around the time I started middle school. I started drifting into the YA section around 13 - in brief, furtive missions that were, in my own mind, incredibly brave and Columbus-esque of me, given the quantities of scary teenagers.     I think the whole idea of YA lit is incredible, and I'm very excited to be an artist-wanna-be in the time when it's becomeing popular. It has such an interesting following - the teenagers that are just starting to explore deeper ideas in relationships and themselves. A YA novel often is just as deep as an adult one, but with slightly less... sex, violence, and crude humor. At least in general.     The problem you get with YA lit is when people who are younger than the target age think they're older than they are, or that the books are meant for younger people. Honestly, I wouldn't let anyone under a certain age read something like 'Graceling' or 'A Great and Terrible Beauty'.     Now we get into the books. I think, age-wise, the best way to read them would be to read TT when you're ten or so, and then several years later find out there's a second and third (and, come 2010, fourth!) book. So overall, I think yes, they do span several classifications. And I like that. Although it may sound strange, QT doesn't seem like one straight series to me - it seems closer to a lot of different books that tell Gen's story. I think it's the changing PoV that makes it seem like that to me. But somehow, and this is what makes the books so marvelous, they still tell one story in a magnificent and original way. Even though there's lots of ways it's written, it never hits a wrong note.     And that is my pontification on YA lit.Thank you, thank you.*bows*

Re: Velcome, dahling.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Huh. Wonder why all my paragraphs went away. Ah well, where there's a bunch of spaces there should be a new paragraph.

Re: Velcome, dahling.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

A YA novel often is just as deep as an adult one, but with slightly less... sex, violence, and crude humor.

Well said.

[pigrescuer.livejournal.com]

I've never been able to categorise any books, personally. I read the Thief and QoA at the age of 10, at about the same time as Bridget Jones and Terry Pratchett, but I was also reading Princess Diaries and Enid Blyton then as well. ^_^

At 18, I feel slightly embarrassed to be wandering over to the 9-12 section, but that's where they put things like Harry Potter and the Bartimeaus Trilogy, for crying out loud!

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

he he...

At 18, I feel slightly embarrassed to be wandering over to the 9-12 section, but that's where they put things like Harry Potter and the Bartimeaus Trilogy, for crying out loud!

Just pretend you're there for a niece or nephew. And as you age you can be choosing books for your "children". That's what I've always done (until now when I guess I've graduated to "the grandkids"...)

[merliquin.livejournal.com]

don't be embarrassed to go in the children's section. some of the best literature is there!
I don't think we'll ever really understand how exactly books are classified. cuz I red children's books when I was 10 that should have been in YA. that was hard to explain to my mother :)

[merliquin.livejournal.com]

don't be embarrassed to go in the children's section. some of the best literature is there!
I don't think we'll ever really understand how exactly books are classified. cuz I red children's books when I was 10 that should have been in YA. that was hard to explain to my mother :)
also, some YA books have just as much violence, sex, and/or profanity as Adult books, they just a main character who is a young adult and so are placed in the young adult section.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Wow, everyone, thank you so much for your thoughts! It's true, I was thinking of YA as more of a 9-12 age group, as I think that's how they are grouped in my friendly neighborhood B&N. 14-19 would definitely suit QoA and KoA much better. The point that these books are classified by what adult topics are not included, as opposed to what they do deal with, is a excellent as well; more than once I found myself thinking of the series as Song of Ice and Fire, sans the sex.

[(Anonymous)]

i know this is really old and no one will read this comment,but fullmetal alchemist icon!!!!! you people make me so happy!

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Ha, you'd be surprised. Welcome!