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[rowana.livejournal.com]

We're getting very close to the publishing date for The King of Attolia now, but Caroline found a great page full of great discussion questions for The Queen of Attolia, so we figured a new thread would be the best place to discuss them - and to ask other burning questions, like 'Who was the Goddess at the end of TQoA?', or to just speculate on the upcoming book.

They can all be found here: http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0380733048&tc=rg



So let's start off with an some interesting ones which haven't really been talked about.

When Eugenides retreats to the library in internal exile after his injury, describe his state of mind and how he views himself in relation to the Eddisians. Why is he so embarrassed, and how do these feelings resurface when he realizes the magnitude of his decision to become king of Attolia?

This could perhaps relate to:

What is Eugenides’ reaction when he is informed that Eddis declared war on Attolia in his name? Does this change his relationship with Eddis? Does he like being called a “sacred relic, a hero” (p.133) in the eyes of the people of Eddis?

I picked these because I figured we've talked about the Gods, and Gen's relationship with Irene a fair bit. Do you guys have any thoughts on his relationship with Eddis, and how that might change in KoA?



Also, everyone check out the continuously updated Spoilers thread for more teasers and summaries. :)

Comments

Went over! Continued. :)

[rowana.livejournal.com]

"And of course because he loved her too, but eliminating Irene's instability was probably the reason why Eddis as a country allowed her resources to be used in stealing Attolia, because it was for the common good of Eddis, not just what Gen wanted."

:) My only problem with theory is that it suggests that even if Irene had looked like she was going to marry a nice guy, who'd make a good king (and not the Mede who was responsible for Gen's mutilation) Gen would still have blackmailed her. It's like when Gen whispers about her becoming a 'puppet queen', and talks quite viciously about Nahuseresh, if Irene would have been happy with someone else, I don't think he would have blackmailed her into marrying him. Other than for the political reasons.

Um, I haven't explained that very well. :) Hope it makes sense. Basically, I think Gen blackmailed her not because he wanted to marry her because he loved her, but because he wanted to marry her to save their countries. Maybe. I think.

But about the blackmail- was there some other way to get her to marry him? Or maybe it doesn't really count as complete blackmail because Attolia made her 'real' choice to marry Gen after the Medes had saved her and it was Gen at her mercy?

I guess in the bigger scheme of things, it doesn't really count as blackmail. But at the time it did. I'm ont sure about this! Has anyone else got any ideas?

"what was up with Attolia telling Gen about how she stood in front of his cell door listening to him after she cut his hand off? We as readers needed to know that, but why tell Gen, especially at that time? It always seemed to me a little out of place with Attolia's whole 'ice goddess' personality."

:) She was trying to explain to someone other than herself why she felt as she did, I think. Trying to tell Gen that she did love him, but feeling very awkward, and still a little doubtful and untrusting about it all. Did you think she was quite 'ice goddess' in the book? I thought there were a fair number of scenes which did a lot to thaw that image. :) She certainly appeared icy to everyone but Gen.

the Gods knew Gen was going to get captured, but not exactly how he was going to be punished, so Attolia would still have some blame. And with Nahuseresh, they told him where Gen was, but not what to do about it, so we can blame him too.

*nods* That's definitely something which we can speculate on. I mean, even if the Gods did know that Gen would get his hand cut off, can we still blame them for letting him get captured? He did get something much bigger in return at the end. :) It really is fantastic that we can see this differently - I've been corrected on so many mistakes. :D

--Ro

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[(Anonymous)]

"I don't think Gen would have killed Irene. He hated killing.."

Good point, I didn't remember this. In the theif remember how guilty Gen was when he killed that Attolian soldier, and in the QOA its repeated when Attolia was musing on how Gen's loyality to Eddis might require him to kill, and whether he would do it.

"I'm guessing the Eddisians accents are like the ancient Greeks and the Attolians and Sounisians are like the Romans.."

Probably right, and since they're all from that Mediterranean- like region, they would sound similar, but not exactly the same; kind of like the many dialects and languages that make up the Indian subcontinent, where my family is from.I guess over time though they would blend, like here in Toronto, where everyone has hyphinated accents. But yeah.

"The topics of Gen's loyality to both queens and countries and everyone's accents are included in the Koa.."

Oooooh goodies!! I have a countdown on my desktop calendar, lol. Is Gen's relationship with his father handled? Oh wait, I'll ask that on the spolier thread, so no one gets spoled here.

"I can't see any of the ministers digesting the fact that Gen loved Irene without wanting to get him checked for insanity..."

They did probably think he was insane, lol. Or maybe they thought it was Gen's revenge too, like Attolia did, and like you said Rowana, thought tim a hero for it. In any case, it was probably at this meeting that the Eddisians figured out Gen's intentions towards Attolia.

"I've always thoguth that Gen's relationship with his father was similar to Pol's with Sophos.."

Could be, but I always saw Sophos and Pol as , oh I don't know, as a father/brother sort of relaionship, with a bit of friendship thrown into the mix. At times Pol could behave like a father/mentor, and then as a friend/brother towards Sophos. Gen's father seemed to me , to be distant and stern; caring for his son in a cautious way,but not a man accustomed to showing his emotions. In both the Thief and the Qoa, it said that Gen's father was a 'man of few words'. It IS nice how we can all see different things when reading; makes for a good discussion, :)

":) My only problem with theory is that it suggests that even if Irene had looked like she was going to marry a nice guy, who'd make a good king (and not the Mede who was responsible for Gen's mutilation) Gen would still have blackmailed her."

Oooh, yes, this is a very good point! I guesS this is where that dreaded gray area comes in, the fine line between Gen's motivations being for Eddis (country)or for his own desires.It was kind of lucky that his desire in this case coincided with the common good for Eddis. I remember that scene too, where Gen reminds her of the 'shadow queen to puppet queen'thing. I alwways loved that scene, it was almost like he was telling her what her life would be like if she refused him. And she hit him because he was being accurate.

But the blackmail thing is really confusing. Blackamil is normally considered to be appaling and bad, but in this case it was this deplorable act that turned out to be good. I second that call for other opinions too.

"She was trying to explain to someone other than herself why she felt as she did, I think. Trying to tell Gen that she did love him, but feeling very awkward, and still a little doubtful and untrusting about it all. Did you think she was quite 'ice goddess' in the book?"

No,no,sorry about that, I meant she had a 'ice goddess MASK' and that in this scene with Gen, it was a little out of place for her to reveal that to him. To be honest, she did love him in that scene , but I don't think she realized it until she thoguht he was dead in Ephrata, remember? Maybe she said that in an attempt to disarm him- like to bring the discussion back on her terms by shocking him?

(continued)
-Caroline

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[(Anonymous)]

"That's definitely something which we can speculate on. I mean, even if the Gods did know that Gen would get his hand cut off, can we still blame them for letting him get captured? He did get something much bigger in return at the end. :)"

This is true; but can we still blame them- maybe, lol. Partially it is their fault, and partially its Attolia's (or the Medes*grrr!*)But like you said, it did lead to the greater good. Thats what the speech for the unknown goddess at the end of the book was trying to say, I think,lol.

"It really is fantastic that we can see this differently - I've been corrected on so many mistakes. :D "

I second this, lol. It helps me clear up alot of misunderstandings I had too, and I feel I know the story better now. *grins widely and runs along to the spoilers thread* :D

- Caroline

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Oooh, yes, this is a very good point! I guesS this is where that dreaded gray area comes in, the fine line between Gen's motivations being for Eddis (country)or for his own desires.It was kind of lucky that his desire in this case coincided with the common good for Eddis. I remember that scene too, where Gen reminds her of the 'shadow queen to puppet queen'thing. I alwways loved that scene, it was almost like he was telling her what her life would be like if she refused him. And she hit him because he was being accurate.

Oooh! I posted a question wondering what Eugenides would have continued to say if Attolia hadn't had slapped her, but then I read your comment a few seconds ago and it was like a light bulb going off in my head. I tell ya, I'm going to have to re-read QOA again with all these new viewpoints & ideas! hehehe :)

from,
Jessica

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Probably right, and since they're all from that Mediterranean- like region, they would sound similar, but not exactly the same; kind of like the many dialects and languages that make up the Indian subcontinent, where my family is from.I guess over time though they would blend, like here in Toronto, where everyone has hyphinated accents. But yeah.

*nods* Yeah, good analogy. Sounis and Attolia's languages and accents certainly seem to have blended. I guess because Eddis is a little more isolated in the mountains, they've managed to retain the old religion, and language.

They did probably think he was insane, lol. Or maybe they thought it was Gen's revenge too, like Attolia did, and like you said Rowana, thought tim a hero for it. In any case, it was probably at this meeting that the Eddisians figured out Gen's intentions towards Attolia."

*nods* Yeah, I think you're right. I hadn't thought of them thinking it was Gen's revenge - but that makes sense actually! :) I'm going to have to go back and re-read the book with lots of different ideas in different places.

Could be, but I always saw Sophos and Pol as , oh I don't know, as a father/brother sort of relaionship, with a bit of friendship thrown into the mix. At times Pol could behave like a father/mentor, and then as a friend/brother towards Sophos. Gen's father seemed to me , to be distant and stern; caring for his son in a cautious way,but not a man accustomed to showing his emotions. In both the Thief and the Qoa, it said that Gen's father was a 'man of few words'. It IS nice how we can all see different things when reading; makes for a good discussion, :)

*nods Absolutely. :) It is rather hard to imagine, for example, Gen and his father arguing publicly. I mean, you can imagine Gen shouting in public, but not his father. And yet it says in either QoA or the Thief that they exercised their grief by arguing in front of the whole court. :) I guess there's still a lot of everyone's characters to work out.

"No,no,sorry about that, I meant she had a 'ice goddess MASK' and that in this scene with Gen, it was a little out of place for her to reveal that to him. To be honest, she did love him in that scene , but I don't think she realized it until she thoguht he was dead in Ephrata, remember? Maybe she said that in an attempt to disarm him- like to bring the discussion back on her terms by shocking him?"

Oh! Yes, I'm pretty sure she did realise that she loved him in Ephrata - I think there's a quote from her thoughts saying that. I got the impression that they both knew they had to get married, and they were just talking for the first time without any barriers. Perhaps that's why I didn't find it as shocking. :) I guess you're right, in light of her other behaviour, it could have been shocking. But, I guess since Gen saw past her mask, it didn't make any difference to him whether she was telling him what she really felt or not, he could still see through her mask.

I hate using the word mask, it usually seems a little cliched, but in this instance it seems appropriate. :)

Nice ideas Caroline.

--Ro

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm going to have to go back and re-read the book with lots of different ideas in different places.

Same with me , lol. I've got so many new ideas reading the messages on this thread, lol.

I mean, you can imagine Gen shouting in public, but not his father. And yet it says in either QoA or the Thief that they exercised their grief by arguing in front of the whole court. :) I guess there's still a lot of everyone's characters to work out.

Oh right, I forgot about that 'exercising thier grief in public" thing, lol! Yeah, so I guess the character of Gen's father is anyone's guess, because we know so little about him (not even his name!). I also wanted to know more about Gen's mother , because presumably she was the one who had the "queen's theif's blood" by being the daugther of the Theif of Eddis (Gen's grandfather).Too bad its not handled in the next book.

Oh! Yes, I'm pretty sure she did realise that she loved him in Ephrata - I think there's a quote from her thoughts saying that. I got the impression that they both knew they had to get married, and they were just talking for the first time without any barriers. Perhaps that's why I didn't find it as shocking. :)

Yeah, I got the same impression, that both Gen and Attolia knew they had to get married too, becasue it was the only way given the cricumstances they were in. I don't think Attolia ever had serious intentions to marry Nahuseresh, she was just using him for his money,she thought he was good-looking, and he thought she was good-looking too,lol I guess in the blackmail scene she was falling in love, albeit subconsciously, with Gen.

I hate using the word mask, it usually seems a little cliched, but in this instance it seems appropriate. :)

True, true it is cliched, but it works well , like you said, in this situation. But your comment reminds me of a quote from the Theif that sums it all up perfectly:

" Her red peplos swept across the back of my hand as she turned to leave and I winced. The velvet was soft, but the embriodery scratched."

This is a really clever sentence, I think, becasue it not only describes waht Attolia was wearing , but how she was as well, like how she herself was soft like the velvet, but her 'embroidery (read mask) scratched. Just an observation.

Nice ideas Caroline.

Thanks *grins*, you too!:)

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Oh right, I forgot about that 'exercising thier grief in public" thing, lol! Yeah, so I guess the character of Gen's father is anyone's guess, because we know so little about him (not even his name!). I also wanted to know more about Gen's mother , because presumably she was the one who had the "queen's theif's blood" by being the daugther of the Theif of Eddis (Gen's grandfather).Too bad its not handled in the next book.

I know. :) It's funny how I'm looking forward to the book after King of Attolia already.

Yeah, I got the same impression, that both Gen and Attolia knew they had to get married too, becasue it was the only way given the cricumstances they were in. I don't think Attolia ever had serious intentions to marry Nahuseresh, she was just using him for his money,she thought he was good-looking, and he thought she was good-looking too,lol I guess in the blackmail scene she was falling in love, albeit subconsciously, with Gen.

*nods* Yes, I agree, definitely. From the few clips we've seen in the spilers thread, I the way they interact doesn't seem to be all that different. :D

"" Her red peplos swept across the back of my hand as she turned to leave and I winced. The velvet was soft, but the embriodery scratched."

This is a really clever sentence, I think, becasue it not only describes waht Attolia was wearing , but how she was as well, like how she herself was soft like the velvet, but her 'embroidery (read mask) scratched. Just an observation."

Nice metaphor! I see what you're saying. Another of MWT's lovely weighty sentances. :D

--Ro

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I agree, definitely. From the few clips we've seen in the spilers thread, I the way they interact doesn't seem to be all that different. :D

The interaction between Gena and Attolia isn't all that different, you're right, execpt in the Qoa Gen didn't really tease Attolia, ar try to make her mad until the end, wnen he was sure he had her affections. So I guess in this book, Gen will be much less serious towards Attolia, judging from those spoliers on the thread, lol.

By the way, when the new book comes out, will we start a new thread when the KOA comes out (and all of us here have it) to discuss it in detail, or will it still be on the spoilers thread?

Re: Went over! Continued. :)

[rowana.livejournal.com]

The interaction between Gena and Attolia isn't all that different, you're right, execpt in the Qoa Gen didn't really tease Attolia, ar try to make her mad until the end, wnen he was sure he had her affections. So I guess in this book, Gen will be much less serious towards Attolia, judging from those spoliers on the thread, lol.

Yes, I think you're right about Gen's attitude. Except when seriousness is really called for perhaps.

I think we'll have a new thread when KoA comes out, just so that things stay seperate. :) I'll start it a bit early for you guys in the US and canada, who're getting it on the 24th, I think.