(no subject)

[rowana.livejournal.com]

We're getting very close to the publishing date for The King of Attolia now, but Caroline found a great page full of great discussion questions for The Queen of Attolia, so we figured a new thread would be the best place to discuss them - and to ask other burning questions, like 'Who was the Goddess at the end of TQoA?', or to just speculate on the upcoming book.

They can all be found here: http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=0380733048&tc=rg



So let's start off with an some interesting ones which haven't really been talked about.

When Eugenides retreats to the library in internal exile after his injury, describe his state of mind and how he views himself in relation to the Eddisians. Why is he so embarrassed, and how do these feelings resurface when he realizes the magnitude of his decision to become king of Attolia?

This could perhaps relate to:

What is Eugenides’ reaction when he is informed that Eddis declared war on Attolia in his name? Does this change his relationship with Eddis? Does he like being called a “sacred relic, a hero” (p.133) in the eyes of the people of Eddis?

I picked these because I figured we've talked about the Gods, and Gen's relationship with Irene a fair bit. Do you guys have any thoughts on his relationship with Eddis, and how that might change in KoA?



Also, everyone check out the continuously updated Spoilers thread for more teasers and summaries. :)

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

"What is Eugenides’ reaction when he is informed that Eddis declared war on Attolia in his name? Does this change his relationship with Eddis? Does he like being called a “sacred relic, a hero” (p.133) in the eyes of the people of Eddis"

Oooh! Good question Rowana!Gen's relationship with Eddis, hmm....
You know, I have a confession to make. I actually thought while reading the Theif that Gen would end up with Eddis. *ducks rotten tomatoes* lol. So I read the QOA the first time thinking that would happen. When Eddis declares war in Gen's name (even though she said she wouldn't start a war to avenge him, or something like that)I think he felt a little guilty, that his failure would now lead to the loss of life of so many soldiers. (remember the part where he went to visit the soildiers, and his aversion for bloodshed?) Also, I thought that it was interesting that throughotut Gen's entire recovery he was completely devoid of any hatred for Attolia; it was almost like Eddis was taking the hatred that Gen was susposed to be feeling for Attolia, leaving Gen with feelings of heartbreak and 'lost love'(in hindsight)

Does it change his relationship with Eddis; well, thats tough.I guesS they were almost like older sister/younger brother, and after the events in QOA, she realized that Gen was also vunerable, and she felt she needed to protect him. After she found out that Gen loved Attolia (by the way, what exact part in QOA DID Eddis find out that Gen loved Attolia? It never says, or I can't find it)she, despite knowing him better than everyone else in Eddis, was horrified, and jealous, because it meant he would leave her, and join Attolia. In KOA, I think that the Gen/Eddis relationship would be one of the minor conflicts to resolve, because I 'm having a hard time seeing how Gen will be able to be loyal to BOTH queens without some problems; kind of like a man who has to deal with problems arising between his mother and new wife, lol.
Gah!! I wanna write more, but I have to go!! Ah well, let the discussion continue!

- Caroline

[rowana.livejournal.com]

You know, I have a confession to make. I actually thought while reading the Theif that Gen would end up with Eddis. *ducks rotten tomatoes* lol. So I read the QOA the first time thinking that would happen. When Eddis declares war in Gen's name (even though she said she wouldn't start a war to avenge him, or something like that)I think he felt a little guilty, that his failure would now lead to the loss of life of so many soldiers. (remember the part where he went to visit the soildiers, and his aversion for bloodshed?) Also, I thought that it was interesting that throughotut Gen's entire recovery he was completely devoid of any hatred for Attolia; it was almost like Eddis was taking the hatred that Gen was susposed to be feeling for Attolia, leaving Gen with feelings of heartbreak and 'lost love'(in hindsight)

*grins* I can't remember my impressions from the first time I read the books, because that was so long ago, and I wasn't really registering at the time. But I'd probably have felt the same, I think their older sister/younger brother relationship doesn't really become clear until QoA, though Gen does state the nature the nature of their relationship at the end of the Thief.

I'd agree with your views on Gen's relationship with the Eddisians and Eddis. I think he loves the people of Eddis in a way, or feels a duty to them, and that's why after his pep talk from Helen in the QoA, he was more accepting about the fact that he was a symbol for the wounded men, and that he had helped them. I'm pretty sure he doesn't feel worthy of his heroic status though. :)

Does it change his relationship with Eddis; well, thats tough.I guess they were almost like older sister/younger brother, and after the events in QOA, she realized that Gen was also vunerable, and she felt she needed to protect him.

I've just had a thought reading that. D'you suppose that in some ways, Helen's almost a surrogate for his mother? Not entirely, she couldn't be, but though Gen claimed at the end of The Thief to be 'fond' of her and nothing more, I think there's a deeper attachment. *shrugs* There's an incredible amount of loyalty to her in Gen, and vice versa, though that could just be the fact that they're close friends. And Gen's stubborness. Hmm...

Rambling again. :) *stops*

After she found out that Gen loved Attolia (by the way, what exact part in QOA DID Eddis find out that Gen loved Attolia? It never says, or I can't find it)she, despite knowing him better than everyone else in Eddis, was horrified, and jealous, because it meant he would leave her, and join Attolia.

Yes! You're exactly right I think. I think in this sense Helen's just like Meredite, not jealous in the way she would be of a lover, but jealous in the way that a mother is of her daughter in law. It's the fact that she won't be the most important woman in his life any more. But then again, Helen was lovely enough to put that aside for Gen's happiness.

In KOA, I think that the Gen/Eddis relationship would be one of the minor conflicts to resolve, because I 'm having a hard time seeing how Gen will be able to be loyal to BOTH queens without some problems; kind of like a man who has to deal with problems arising between his mother and new wife, lol.

Yes, that's exactly the problem that I'm seeing. I really want to see Gen visiting Eddis as the King of Attolia. I mean, the Eddisians will probably see him differently too.

What will the people of Eddis think of their hero becoming King of Attolia? Perhaps they'll blame Irene again. What do you guys think?

[(Anonymous)]

Hey there, my name is Jessica. I just found this message board a couple days ago and didn't have time to go through all the messages yet, so I thought I'd post my question here. First of all, I'm as thrilled as everyone else that the King of Attolia is going to be published soon. Yeay! I live in the U.S. and I think the publication is later this month. Anyway, onto my question . . . in the Queen of Attolia, there is a scene/conversation that I cannot figure out. It is the scene where Eugenides & Attolia have climbed up the cliff and are met by Eddis's ministers. (It's on page 197). The chamberlain starts making the introductions and 'only once did he falter, looking over his shoulder. "He said he wouldn't be here," one of the ministers said in a carrying whisper and the chamberlain went on with the formal greetings of the queen of Eddis in absentia.' Who is the minister referring to?? Is he referring to Eugenides--as in Eugenides had told the ministers that he would not be there to meet them at the top of the cliff with Attolia? If that is the case, that gives the implication that Eugenides thought Attolia would have killed him or perhaps tried to escape after he had given back her knives at the bottom of the cliff. But then, why would Eugenides had gone through all that trouble to capture the queen if he was just going to let her kill him? Or maybe I'm just making too much out of what the minister was saying--who knows, he could have just been referring to somebody else who was supposed to have been there. What do you think?

Now my second question . . . how old do you think Eugenides and Attolia are? And how old was Eugenides when he first saw her dancing in the garden? I'm guessing Attolia is somewhere in her early 20s and Eugenides is in his late teens.

Thanks!

from,
Jessica

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Hey Jessica. :) I think you guys in the US might be able to get it as early as the 11th, so only three days.

It is the scene where Eugenides & Attolia have climbed up the cliff and are met by Eddis's ministers. (It's on page 197). The chamberlain starts making the introductions and 'only once did he falter, looking over his shoulder. "He said he wouldn't be here," one of the ministers said in a carrying whisper and the chamberlain went on with the formal greetings of the queen of Eddis in absentia.' Who is the minister referring to?? Is he referring to Eugenides--as in Eugenides had told the ministers that he would not be there to meet them at the top of the cliff with Attolia? If that is the case, that gives the implication that Eugenides thought Attolia would have killed him or perhaps tried to escape after he had given back her knives at the bottom of the cliff. But then, why would Eugenides had gone through all that trouble to capture the queen if he was just going to let her kill him? Or maybe I'm just making too much out of what the minister was saying--who knows, he could have just been referring to somebody else who was supposed to have been there. What do you think?

Great question. Um, I have a theory. I think that the person who is being referred to is Gen's father - he appears later, when he lifts Attolia down from her horse, though she doesn't know then whom he is. So I figured it must be him. If it were Eugenides then that's undermine the whole point of the ending, and all of the romance - as you said.

Now my second question . . . how old do you think Eugenides and Attolia are? And how old was Eugenides when he first saw her dancing in the garden? I'm guessing Attolia is somewhere in her early 20s and Eugenides is in his late teens.

*nods* That's what I'm guessing too. Gen has to be young enough to be considered 'a boy', or at least, in the last stages of adolescence, at the beginning of the book, but old enough to make a credible King at the end. So I'm guessing eighteen or so? Perhaps sixteen at the time of 'The Thief'. And - Gen said that he was older than six when he watched Irene right? perhaps eight or nine then, and Irene was maybe eleven or twelve. Which would make her three or four years older than him.

But yes, I'm guessing. :) I'm sure we all see them and their respective ages slightly differently.

Welcome again Jessica!

--Ro

[(Anonymous)]

Hey Jessica, welcome to the discussion!

"Great question. Um, I have a theory. I think that the person who is being referred to is Gen's father - he appears later, when he lifts Attolia down from her horse, though she doesn't know then whom he is. So I figured it must be him. If it were Eugenides then that's undermine the whole point of the ending, and all of the romance - as you said."

I'd have to agree with this. Gen's father is probably who was being refered to. Although why he didn't want to be there beats me. Oooh, thats another thing I want to see in the next book - how Gen's father reacts to Gen and Attolia's marriage. He hated her, from what I could gather from the last book, and I had the feeling that he was really mad with Gen for being in love with her and all.

"Now my second question . . . how old do you think Eugenides and Attolia are"
I saw Gen as around 16/17-ish (hehe my age!) in the Theif, and 18/19 in the Qoa. Young enough to be childish, but old enough to be calculating and shrewd when it comes to getting want he wants.

Which leads me to an interesting tangent,lol, .In fact, the only part of the QoA that made me a little nervous was Gen's blackmail of Attolia into marriage. Obviously at the end of the book, Gen's love for Attolia and hers for him is what saves her, but do you guys think the ends justify the means? And if she had said no, does anyone think that he would have killed her?I don't. To me, this is an example of Gen's dual perosnalities, like his two sides.

Another thing:Was it the gods who intervened and caused Gen's had to be cut off, or did they use the events humans had created on thier own, and turned them the way they want? If its entirely the gods doing that would absolve Attolia from any blame; and this is obviously not the case.

And in reponse to your previous post Rowana, yes, I agree Helen is like a mother figure to Gen. Does it say how old Gen was when he lost his mother?

Ok, this is my last question in this post, promise!;) How do you pronounce Gen's name? you-gen-NIDES or you-GEN-ih-dees? The last one is what I say.

- Caroline

[(Anonymous)]

um, just realized I posted that twice. Any way to dlete it? Soooorry!!:)
-Caroline

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Done. :) *rubbs hands together, full of glee at being a moderator*

[rowana.livejournal.com]

"I'd have to agree with this. Gen's father is probably who was being refered to. Although why he didn't want to be there beats me. Oooh, thats another thing I want to see in the next book - how Gen's father reacts to Gen and Attolia's marriage. He hated her, from what I could gather from the last book, and I had the feeling that he was really mad with Gen for being in love with her and all."

:) I love the way we can all read things differently in MWTs books. I didn't get the impression that Gen's father knew he was in love with Irene at all. Or if he did, he was being rather stoic about it (like Pol would have been - anyone else see the similarities between them?). I thought he largely took it that Gen was doing this for the good of Eddis - to eliminate the instability of the Attolian queen, as he said.

I've a feeling he was asked not to be there because the others were worried that he might acuse a scene - she'd mutilated his son after all. So when he turned up, they were worried because 'he said he wouldn't be here'. Yup. :) But again, that's just how I read it.

"In fact, the only part of the QoA that made me a little nervous was Gen's blackmail of Attolia into marriage. Obviously at the end of the book, Gen's love for Attolia and hers for him is what saves her, but do you guys think the ends justify the means? And if she had said no, does anyone think that he would have killed her?I don't. To me, this is an example of Gen's dual perosnalities, like his two sides."

This is really interesting Caroline (*loves this discussion*). This is partly why Gen's loyalty to Eddis the country is interesting, because presumably he would have drowned her (thinking that she was treating with the Medes) in order to protect his country. Though this would contrast with what he said earlier about 'everyone being willing to throw everyone else's country to the dogs'. Hmm, perhaps he knew that it wouldn't come to that? That's why he used the ploy of Attolia (the country) on Irene - to show her how the people would be lost without her, so she had to live and marry him.

And again, I think the only reason Gen blackmailed her into marriage, was because he honestly wanted to stop the Mede from marrying her. At least partly. That's what they meant by 'eliminating Irene's instability', I think. I dunno, I could be very wrong on this. :) It's just - I see Gen as being more forthright (despite all his lies, yes) than the other characters, because at least he's consistant. Bleh, I'm rambling again.

"Another thing: Was it the gods who intervened and caused Gen's had to be cut off, or did they use the events humans had created on thier own, and turned them the way they want? If its entirely the gods doing that would absolve Attolia from any blame; and this is obviously not the case."

Interesting! I think that the only way in which the Gods intervened was in two places - sending moira those two times. Other than that, I think that they simply knew what was going to happen, and sent Moira to tell certain people things in certain places, in order to direct events. I don't think they intervened in any other way. Hmm.

Does it say how old Gen was when he lost his mother?

Wasn't it ten? Fairly young, but old enough to have begun training (as a soldier) then.

"How do you pronounce Gen's name? you-gen-NIDES or you-GEN-ih-dees? The last one is what I say."

:D I say it the same way as you, but as the Eddisians pronounce the country as 'Eedis', I think Gen himself would probably pronounce it the first way. :) He is meant to have a slight (probably Greek?) accent.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

All the questions which some of us are unsure about - like those concerning the character's ages, and the pronounciations of names, and even confusions, have given me an idea. It's probably a crap one for the moment, and should wait for a while, but I figured I'd ask.

On another fandom which I belong to, a group of us got together online and sent off a fan letter, full of questions for the author. About fifteen in total. We got a lovely reply, and everyone was very happy. Would you guys be willing to try the same thing, perhaps after the release of the KoA?

If there're enough of us and enough questions, we could get something sorted. :)

[(Anonymous)]

This sounds like a great idea! Since there's likely to be another book after the KoA (from what I've gathered from the spoliers thread) the wait will probably be really long (the wait for this one was 6 years!), so it would give us alot of time to organize good questions and try to send them to MWT. Even though we're not a big fandom, it might yeild something. I'm the kinda person that has more questions to ask with the greater amount of information I'm given, lol. So I'd definetly participate!
-Caroline

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Great! If more people join, and lots are interested, we'll definitely do it. :)

--Ro

[(Anonymous)]

I'd like to participate with the fan-questions too. You can count me in! :)

from,
Jessica

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Just a note about this letter we're planning to send. I'll stick up a thread for it after the release of KoA. We can compose and start adding questions to a letter then. I think everyone should be able to include as many or as few questions each as you want, (obviously), and as many (or few) personal details as you want. And whatever comments you want too. :) We don't want it to be too long, but we can sort that out later.

Oh, and the questions can be as personal (what sort of underwear does Gen wear?) or as intellectual as you like. Within the realms of propriety. I guess that means my question on underwear out the window actually.

[(Anonymous)]

Hehe what sort of underwear does Gen wear, thats funny, lol. I was wondering though, would we all compose it together, or would one person write it (like organize it), and include all of our questions on it?
-Caroline

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I do want to know, did they wear loincloths, Long-john thingies, or abosolutely nothing under their britches? :D

:) I'd prefer to compose it together, because i'd be quite stuck as to what to say. I might stick a little sentance at the beginning saying 'Hello, we're all members of an internet forum who love your books, and we thought we'd write in together', bt then I'd leave that sentance in the post, and you guys could write paragraphs or comments, and ultimately decide what gets said. I figured we don't want too many comments (because, really, what're we going to say beyong "OMG You rock!"), but as many question as you like. And the questions can contain comments and be as wordy as you like.

So yeah, I'll oversee the whole thing I guess. :s And perhaps write the first sentance, but this is our letter, so you guys ought to write most of it. Certainly the opening paragraph if anyone can word it in a way that everyone agrees on. Though most of the letter will probably comprise of long questions puctuated with comments. I think.

I'll definitely stick the address up if possible, so that you guys can write individually too if you want. But it should be possible to stick yuor comments in. The only thing is, I can't see how we could otherwise all have a large and individual say in the letter without writing it dialogue style. Which would look a little silly. :)

I guess we'll see how it goes. I hope I answered your question somewhere in all that babbling. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Ro, another idea is to invite MWT to join us in a discussion here. If I was an author (no chance of that), I'd be surfing the net to see what the buzz was on my new book. I wonder if maybe she has seen your lovely site, or certainly the sci-fi one. Who knows, maybe she reads our posts and would be willing to come chat with some of her biggest fans.

Just a thought.

~checkers

[(Anonymous)]

Has anybody thought of any thought-provoking questions to ask Megan Whalen Turner yet? I can't think of a single one . . . probably because I got them all answered from this message board. I bet that once I get my hands on KOA, I'll have more ideas.

Anyway, let me know. Thanks! :)

from,
Jessica

A New Game

[(Anonymous)]

I thought this might be fun. Most people like to visualize while they read. What do you all think the characters look like? MWT tells us very little as far as physical description. She probably describes Eddis with the most detail. Here's what I found in the books.

Gen: All we really know, up to now, is that he has dark hair, and is somewhat small. The magus talks of his "dark coloring", and in KOA, it says that his "normally dark skin" was pale. In KOA, his figure is called "slight," and we learn that Teleus (captain of the guard) is nearly a head taller than the king. His eyes are "like pools of darkness," so they must be dark, too.

Attolia: She has black hair and is as tall as the magus. She is beautiful, has perfect teeth, and her voice is quiet and lovely. Her skin is flawless and so fair as to be translucent. (Hmmm...I think I hate her.) In KOA, we learn that she is "several inches taller" than Eugenides, and that she seldom smiles, and then only at those to whom she is close.

Eddis: She has short, curly, black hair, stands like a soldier, her nose was broken and mended crooked. Gen says she is short, broad-shouldered, and hawk-faced. But she has a lovely smile.

The Magus: He is tall, and is fit and strong. He has a high-bridged nose and light gray eyes. His forehead is covered by wrinkles from the sun and too much frowning. Most of his hair is gray, although his eyebrows are still dark.

See, isn't this fun? Other characters? I have ideas, but let's hear what you think.

I tried to post this to the main page, but it wouldn't let me without a username and password. Oh well.

~checkers

Re: A New Game

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I'm so sorry about the screwed up posting thing. I think you have to have a livejournal and join this forum through that, to be allowed to post. I'll check the settings and see if there's anything that I can do to allow you to post, but otherwise, I can post this on the main page for you so it gets a seperate discussion. :)

Re: A New Game

[(Anonymous)]

Rowana, don't apologize! You are doing a awesome job! You thought to create this wonderful site for us and you are doing an incredible job keeping us straight. I'll bet it is very time consuming. You should be proud. The site has grown from nothing to the only place MWT fans can come and get psyched for the new book. Thank you!

~checkers

Re: A New Game

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Thank you Checkers, that means a lot to me, and eddis too, I'm sure. I just felt bad that you couldn't get your own post started, but if you're okay with it, I'll leave it here then. :)

Re: A New Game

[rowana.livejournal.com]

:) One of the great things about MWT's writing style is she doesn't waste too much time on physical description, which is the most obvious way to make your writing sound juvenile, but instead slips in hints and phrases so that you build up a picture gradually. You've picked up on some great bits Checkers!

I saw Gen in Thief as being about a head shorter than Pol, and the Magus, and perhaps around the same height as Sophos, who I think will eventually outgrow Gen. His skin colour is probably mediterranian, so a kind of light olive brown. Almost spanish maybe? That would fit in with the theme of dark hair and eyes and skin for Eddisians. I think Eugenides the god is described as having a reddish-brown colouring. What do you guys make of that?

Eddis is interesting, because I can never seem to picture her with dark skin, though all Eddisians must have it. What I find interesting (and this is slightly off topic) is how although we know that Eddisians have a darker skin colouring, we also know that Sounisians and Attolians are fair. Is this because they bred with the (presumably) fair skinned invaders, whilst the Eddisians remained in ther mountains, preserving their gods and language?

Re: A New Game

[fabricalchemist.livejournal.com]

Gen would be mega-pale. His skin is "prison-fair".

Re: A New Game

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I always assumed that that meant fair for dark skin. So very very pale brown. Isn't it said over and over that Eddisians have dark colouring? And that Gen mentioned an Eddisian mother in his records to explain his dark colouring?

I could be wrong. I'll double check.