Thoughts I've Been Chewing On

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Something has been niggling at me since I first finished The King of Attolia, and as I'm not sure that I've been able to answer myself after my recent reread, I figured I would cast this question out to everyone. So:

Is Gen and Attolia's relationship an entirely healthy one?

As a disclaimer, I do not mean to undermine the strength or purity of their love; it is entirely obvious that Gen and Attolia are excellently suited for each other and happy together. What concerns me is the quantity of fear that has existed, and still seems to exist between them. A few demonstrative quotes:

She lifted her hand and laid it on the side of his face. It was all she needed to do. Though his expression didn't change, she could feel the tremor that went through him at her touch. He was afraid of her. Some part of him would always be afraid of her. That fear was her weapon, and she would encourage it if she wanted to maintain her authority as queen. (QoA p.373)

 

This quote is not as indicative as it might be, obviously, as Attolia hasn't allowed herself to fully commit to Gen and the relationship yet. The Attolia of KoA would not manipulate Gen this way, and as we know, she actually wants for him to increase his exercise of power. However, I think Gen's reaction to her touch is telling-- his fear of her is real, and he does not seem to be something he can entirely ignore or suppress, and it seems to continue.

"Just a nightmare," he said, his voice still rough.
The queen's voice was cool. "How embarrassing," she said, looking at his maimed arm.
The king looked up then, and followed her gaze. If it was embarrassing to wake like a child screaming from a nightmare, how much more embarrassing to be the reason your husband woke screaming. (KoA p. 208)

This seems rather ominous to me, and it's followed by another nightmare which we learn the exact subject of:

...the king said shakily, "Tell me you won't cut out my lying tongue, tell me you won't blind me, you won't drive red-hot wires into my ears." (KoA p. 218)

Tellingly, Gen and Attolia have a very touching moment after this; again, we clearly aren't meant to doubt their love, but the fact remains that Gen's nightmares directly concern his wife. Nor does Gen seem to expect to be relieved of this burden.

"Dite, I don't need quinalums to give me nightmares; they come on their own. The gods send them to keep me humble." (KoA p. 235)

 

I feel I should say that, as a reader, I am glad that MWT has embedded this confusing element into Gen and Attolia's marriage, as it is highly realistic and makes for even deeper and more complex characters and situations than we already enjoyed. (And, though this is a subject for another post, I must say how impressed I am at how Megan handles the vast and continuous waves created when Attolia cut Gen's hand off.) However, analyzing this subject as objectively as I can leaves me to wonder how healthy a relationship can be if  an individual suffers from such an intense level of (possibly) subconscious fear of their spouse that it causes consistent nightmares.

What do you all think?

Comments

really just posting because the icon applies

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

um. what you said.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Great points! It's funny, while part of me wants to say that Gen and Attolia should try to accept each other on all levels-- spouse, sovereign, amputator/tee-- I wonder if a little selective amnesia might not achieve better results all around, in terms of the two of them moving past the violence between them.

[beatlelove927.livejournal.com]

I think Gen needs to be a little afraid of his significant other to give them any respect at all. Otherwise he would just do whatever he wanted with no consequences.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Do you think his fear in KoA might no longer be fear of what his wife might do to him, but more of a residual post traumatic stress reaction to what happened in the past? Does he still fear her? He did at the end of QoA, but it seems different in KoA. Her attitude, as you say, is certainly different.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with that. It goes back to the destinction gypsymoongate mentioned between Gen and Irene and the Queen of Attolia and the Thief of Eddis. The problem is that Gen still associates Irene with Attolia... which brings back the resi... residu... whatever those big words you just used were.

That is the strange thing. I have trouble, even now, identifying them as husband and wife. I believe they love each other, but sometimes I'll be talking about KoA to a friend, and I say, "yeah, but one of the best parts is Gen's relationship with..." I know I should say 'his wife', but that seems wrong somehow... even now. It's one of the many cliffhangers MWT has left to clean up in later books.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree that Gen's fear of Attolia is not of the practical or realistic persuasion, but I do think the fear still exists. PTSD is an interesting interpretation; Gen knows on a conscious level that Attolia loves him and would never have him tortured again, but after everything he's been through at her hands, I don't think he can fully root out that residual terror. It probably doesn't help his perceptions that he's living in the palace he was tortured in, surrounded by erstwhile enemies. I wonder if, theoretically, Gen would have recovered from his fear faster if he had followed Eddis's plan to marry him off and live safely in the mountains. He wouldn't be constantly exposed to fear-provoking elements, but at the same time he wouldn't have gotten the closure he has by marrying Attolia.

[cleo]

I think gypsymoongate has really responded well to this. I'd just like to add that I think Attolia suffers just as much as Gen does in his fear--though, for Attolia, it is that he reminds her of his guilt.

I don't have the book handy, and I haven't looked at it since Yuletide, but I think the subtext is there.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

The guilt thing is very interesting, I think, particularly as Attolia isn't much used to experiencing emotions at all, and the feelings she's been most exposed to since her relationship with Gen began-- love, intense anger, and guilt-- are particularly potent. It wouldn't be surprising to me, then, if part of her fear comes not only from her desire not to hurt Gen, but also a fear of what emotions hurting Gen would expose herself to all over again.

[tencups-i-swear.livejournal.com]

That's true. How can a relationship be completey healthy when one is afraid of the other?
Gen scares Irene too though, certeinly not as much as she scares him, but he does, still scare her.
Example,
'His wildnes sometimes frightened her.' KoA pg98
So so so.

[tearoha.livejournal.com]

I think some of Attolia's fear is for Gen rather than for herself, though. And also for her country.

But I agree with Cleo that she suffers.

[tencups-i-swear.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, yesss . . .I suppose so!

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I had the same reaction to KoA as checkers described above. Because of that I have felt that eventually the nightmares would abate. I'm in constant awe of how MWT makes this situation so believable. However, I think that if the nightmares were to continue indefinitely it would lose a little of its believability for me. As I understand it, the events in KoA are not far past the QoA fear, etc so it makes sense to me that Gen would have this leftover trauma. Did anyone else feel this way? That the nightmares would eventually decrease, or disappear entirely?

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

I think they'll become less frequent, at least. I doubt they'll go away entirely... I would suspect that some things could cause them to come back, something that brought it back to the front of his mind.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I agree. I always thought Gen and Irene's fight triggered the nightmares. She'd just hauled off and smacked him, for heaven's sake.

[thelasteddis.livejournal.com]

Yup. At first, (QoA and early KoA) they come pretty regularly, but then they become less frequent, more related to specific incedents. As you said above.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

Not only that, but she hauled off and smacked him while in a towering rage that had her entire court utterly terrified.

Of course, one could argue that smacking him one is being a lot more human than she usually is - at least with anyone else, since nobody else seems to make her lose control like that. But, on the other hand, she slugged him at least once when he was her prisoner, so that's even more reason for the nightmares.

I think you're right about residual fear rather than fear of Attolia now. I read KoA before I read either of the other books, so I had no background knowledge, and I did not get the impression at all that Gen was afraid of Attolia. Yes, he flinched back when she touched him after he was injured, but that seemed more startled than afraid. Yes, the nightmares and all, but that was of what happened in the past. And remember the "insane courage" that he showed facing up to her in a fury - and he didn't seem afraid of her.

Mostly he seemed to tease and torment her - the dance, for example, and some of the things they said. And he lies to her and goes off and does what he wants to.

One of the first inklings I had that they were really in love was when she kicked him in the ankle.

[zumie-ashlen.livejournal.com]

Well, I think part of it is that they're ROYALTY--it's hard to find even non-fantasy monarchs with healthy relationships, because of the strain of ruling, the country, and constant scrutinizing.

Healthy by our standards? Not at all. But still wonderful to read about.

[diadactic.livejournal.com]

What makes a relationship healthy?

Power is part of their relationship. It's part of why they are attracted to each other. It's part of why we're attracted to them (or maybe I speak only for myself- but damn, Attolia sounds good). But they are acting in each other's best interests- what could be more healthy than that?

[in-my-niteshirt.livejournal.com]

Yes, that is the question to ask: What makes a relationship "healthy"? I would say that it is a healthy relationship because being together they are facing their demons, addressing whatever issues they have, and helping each other to recover psychologically from the traumas they have suffered. Being together is promoting healing, not hindering healing.
When Gen wakes up from the nightmare and says, "tell me you won't...." (just before the marvelous "ridiculous lies" line that we all LOVE) -- I think that scene tells us a lot, not because he's still having nightmares, but because he can talk to her about it.
And as for the nightmares, I guess I take it more literally than others here, what Gen said -- they are sent by the Gods to keep him humble.

[charlotteslibrary.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

Not only has Gen lost his hand because of Irene, because of her he is trapped. He's lost his country, his family, his freedom...and he's not entirely happy about it. How could he not, subconsciously, blame her a bit for all that, on top of the loss of his hand? And his exile is a torture, of sorts, that is ongoing, and which he hasn't accepted yet. So that might, on a more metaphorical level, be contributing to his nightmares.

[aged-crone.livejournal.com]

True - but, on the bright side, his wife's a real babe.

[inkasrain.livejournal.com]

Bwahahaha!!! Brilliant!

[mswyrr]

More than the violence she ordered as Queen in punishment for his acts as Thief and the ongoing nightmares, I was disturbed by her hitting him in KoA. When she cut off his hand, her political motivations were understandable. She rules in a vicious world, and that kind of thing is not beyond the pale. And when she cuffed his ear, it was a ruse for the onlooking Medes. But in KoA, she strikes him, knocking him down, for no other reason than that she is angry. That was... wow.

((digs out the quote))

“I only asked you to reconsider.”
“There is nothing to reconsider!”
“You know why I need him.”
“Not anymore,” the queen declared with finality.
The king ignored the finality. “Now more than ever,” he insisted.
“He has failed—”
“That is not entirely his fault!”
“Then you will unmake my decisions?” Attolia dared him to try.
“You said I could,” Eugenides flatly replied.
Pushed too far, the queen lashed out. The king made no effort to avoid the blow. His head snapped around, and his forehead struck the doorjamb. He staggered and caught himself. By the time he opened his eyes, she was at the door and then she was gone.

IMO, that was abusive because it was interpersonal, it was an action between Irene and Gen. It was her taking out her anger on her lover physically for no other reason than that she was enraged and he was there. It was her ending an argument with her fist. Again, I say... wow.

I think they're fascinating and I love them, but healthiness is definitely something fragile they're striving for and often far from. But it's an ongoing thing, I suppose, like any relationship.

[chubbyleng.livejournal.com]

At first this was how it appeared to me too. I had exactly the same reaction as you, really shocked and angry with Attolia for doing that.

But after reading what Philia said above, I realized that their convo was not entirely as it seemed. I think she really did hit him because she felt betrayed, and he manipulated her guilt and pain to do something she didn't want to. Of course as readers, we know that what Gen did was for the greater good, but she doesn't realize that yet. What she sees is that her husband was nearly killed due to Teleus's failure, and he needed to be punished.

Her anger probably stemmed off from fear as well. I mean, she trusted him and if he could do that to her, what other things could he make her do by bringing up her "past mistakes"? She knows that he knows that she feels guilty about cutting off his hand and torturing him; she's probably afraid that he would always remind her of it.