Eddis, Attolia, Sounis

Yeah, I thought that, too. He must have picked Costis because he was a good guy. But, does that make it even worse, because he is such an honorable guy, that Gen makes him dance to his song?

anon8 and I were talking about how Gen always knows every servant and guard's name, as if he really sees everyone as a person, even down to the littlest wine-bearer boy.

*dances around the room in a pale imitation an actual dancing bear*

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fabricalchemist.livejournal.com

But, does that make it even worse, because he is such an honorable guy, that Gen makes him dance to his song?

I think you're assuming Gen posesses a standard set of morals.

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cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com

I think you're assuming Gen posesses a standard set of morals.

Lol, you're right. His sense of morality is definitely unique to himself. He still doesn't like to kill people or have them killed, but does so when he has no other choice. But in other areas he's very gray.

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But if Costis hadn't punched Gen, if he'd had more restraint, then he wouldn't have gotten dragged into it. So it was his own actions that sort of set into motion the next phase of his employment. You didn't see Aris or Teleus lose their heads, even though Gen's statement provoked them too.

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You didn't see Aris or Teleus lose their heads, even though Gen's statement provoked them too.

That's a good point, but Gen definitely implied that he was baiting Costis specifically at the time. I can't remember exactly what he said, was there anything that could be aimed entirely at Costis? Or maybe Gen had noticed that Costis was particularly blunt, and could be more easily provoked?

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He was commenting to Teleus that it was too bad he had guards so incompetent as to allow their own Queen to be abducted from right beneath their noses, so to speak. That's why Gen's statement, "I wasn't baiting you..." was a surprise not only because of who he actually wanted to punch him, but because the statement was aimed at Teleus. Costis is loyal to Teleus too, as his guard captain and as a role model, so the insult to Teleus also rankled along with the comment in itself.

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Wow, you're good at this. :D I'm going to have to go back and re-read. But I see your point now, Costis did suffer a loss of restraint which the other guards didn't, and the insult was equally aimed at them I suppose. But your point about Costis looking up to Teleus is a good one too.

:) It's difficult to decide whether Gen wanted Costis specifically, or any of the guards to hit him. He did say something about needing a lever long enough - and Costis was the one who instigated that sword bout at the end that changed the minds of the guard about Gen - I'm not sure. :) Must re-read.

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Didn't Gen really take a risk with all this? I can see that he was pretty certain that he could prevent Costis from being executed if he took the bait, but what if Telius had reacted instead? I don't see any way to keep Telius from being executed for hitting the king. Gen might not have really minded getting rid of Telius, but what would have happened to his plan to reduce the guard? That could only happen if Telius was there to agree.

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There was a huge risk involved, but Gen is the guy who went to prison hoping that it wold occur to the Magus that he needed a thief. If baiting Costis hadn't worked, Gen would have tried something else. :) In a way, I guess he's still jumping and waiting for his god to catch him.

Which brings up the question of the gods involvement in KoA. I think they were involved a lot more than I thought at first.

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Which brings up the question of the gods involvement in KoA. I think they were involved a lot more than I thought at first.

I think that question deserves its own thread. Why don't you start one?

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That's a good idea. I would, but I really, really ought to get on with the history paper that I'm meant to be doing. I seem to have fallen into the habit of wandering around the forum instead of doing history.

Would you mind starting the thread instead? It sounds like you already have some ideas about the gods possible involvement in KoA. :)

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It will be my pleasure. :)

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Gen must have known Teleus's character well enough to know that his captain wouldn't strike him. After all, Gen's almost always insulting Teleus, but Teleus never reacts except to be very formal and very terse. I bet Teleus would be a great poker player.

And while Gen was rubbing it in about the abduction, Teleus might have blamed himself already, and had his apologies accepted by the queen, so maybe it didn't hurt as much. He might have been just irritated at what seemed like bragging and petty insults from the foreigner king. But to Costis, it was an insult to his captain and to the hard work of his fellow guards.

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I bet Teleus would be a great poker player.

:D I personally would never want to mess with Telius. He's pretty fierce.

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:D I personally would never want to mess with Telius. He's pretty fierce.

Last comment before I do my homework, I promise. Can you really see Costis as a younger version of Teleus, and therefore possibly in line to someday become Captain of the Guard?

And, another question, which is possibly just a lack of uderstanding on my part, Teleus mentioned qualities which Costis had that he thought would be ruined by another year at home. What could those qualities have been? Surely the aspects of his personality that stand out - his honesty etc - must have been cultivated by the situation at home?

From: (Anonymous)

I was confused by this two.

I think Gen did know how honourable, etc that Costis was. All the characters, (minus Costis himself) think that Costis will be Telus's successor. Costis is honourable, does the right thing even if he tinks it will kill him, (tell's Gen he told Attolia etc.), a good fighter, a great leader (others follow him and he leds in the right direction) and he's intelligent. Or at least capable of intelligence. At the begining of the book though he wasn't Guard Captain material though: he was too unaware of all the political intrigue going on around him, and to protect the Queen the Guard captain must be able to understand how to deal with all the intrigue around him.

So I figure Gen was sort of grooming/training him to be an even better Captain Guard apprentice.

Hmm or maybe he's going to send him on a secret Mede mission and that's why he's making sure he learns his Mede?

And even though it shamed his family, in the end it brought his family more honour and esteem, as he was now a confident of the King.

how do you think Gen really felt about Costis?
I think Gen really liked Costis from the begining. Even thou he was always making fun of him and made Costis the lowest in the picking order I think it was all just part of the act of decieving the attendants, as whenever he made a real joke, umm can't tihnk of any now, he was always saying it more to Costis then the other attendants.
-EmpMai

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i> think Gen really liked Costis from the begining. Even thou he was always making fun of him and made Costis the lowest in the picking order I think it was all just part of the act of decieving the attendants, as whenever he made a real joke, umm can't tihnk of any now, he was always saying it more to Costis then the other attendants.

I think Gen and Costis' relationship is almost parallelled in the story Phresine told. Though at first, Gen seemed to see Costis as a tool, I think he's come to like him. :)

When Gen was making jokes that he directed more at Costis, I think that was partly trying to get Costis to change him mind about Gen - which was, after all, the whole point.

So I figure Gen was sort of grooming/training him to be an even better Captain Guard apprentice.

Hmm or maybe he's going to send him on a secret Mede mission and that's why he's making sure he learns his Mede?

:) That would be pretty cool. I guess we'll have to wait for the next book. I wonder if Costis is even going to play a main part in the next book.

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as whenever he made a real joke, umm can't tihnk of any now, he was always saying it more to Costis then the other attendants.

Like when Pilades piled different types of wheat in front of Gen and he later said at least he hadn't asked about fertilizer. He looked at Costis to see if he had gotten the joke.

At the begining of the book though he wasn't Guard Captain material though: he was too unaware of all the political intrigue going on around him

True. I hadn't thought of that.

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Even though he was always making fun of him and made Costis the lowest in the pecking order I think it was all just part of the act of deceiving the attendants

In a way, Gen *had* to be a little insulting to Costis. If you worked for a man you hated, and that man started treating you really, really nice right after you'd punched him, you wouldn't like him any more. In fact, it'd be rather unnerving and you might conclude that your employer is mad. Insane king = keep on hating him :D The pecking also helped Costis to learn to keep his temper, and to be more efficient too.

And even though it shamed his family, in the end it brought his family more honour and esteem, as he was now a confidant of the King.

Exactly. They didn't lose the farm, and Costis is still employed as part of the Royal Guard, so if he has any extra money, he could still send it home to help out. Plus, even if Costis is in disgrace, technically he's a lieutenant in the Royal Guard, which is pretty nice.

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Oh yeah, he was made lieutenant. Maybe Gen wanted that because Costis was one of the few guards he could trust to take his guard duties seriously and truly protect him. After all, Costis was the only one to figure out about the dogs being released to create a distraction for the assassins. And even though Costis had hated the king, he didn't hesitate to run to protect him.

I think Gen really enjoyed poking Costis and watching him bite his tongue and control his temper. You notice whenever things got serious Gen was gentle with Costis. Like when he hit Costis with the sword, or the times Costis, even though it was hard to do, went to Gen with the truth about Susa and the queen asking questions, or not spreading the story about his family.

From:

cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com

I have to agree with the consensus thusfar. If there's one thing that's absolutely certain it's that Eugenides understands things tenfold of what he lets on.

I imagine Gen knew the kind of person Costis was in the same way that he what kind of person Laecdomum (no energy to check spelling right now) was. He is an excellent judge of character -- likely because of his keen observational skills. :P

So, I imagine he had a sort of affection for Costis. This is especially evident in Gen's tone when he teases him. For example, in the final sword play scene when he remarks at how not comforting it is to imagine being protected by a guard posessing skills at Costis' level.

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xie-kitchin.livejournal.com

*de-lurks*

Why Costis?
Because he's likeable, honourable, and very predictable. Predictable = manipulable. And we all know how good Gen is at manipulating people. Was it unfair? Maybe a little. But Gen had a country to run, and he did what was necessary (maybe even a little more than was necessary...).
Political motivations aside, I say Gen was bored and lonely. I mean, look at who he's surrounded by. He has a wife he's constantly at odds with, an advisor who doesn't hesitate to dish out verbal or physical abuse, a court full of barons who would like nothing better than to see him hanged/beheaded/sans a few more appendages, and cousins who are only slightly less irritating than the snot-nosed-brats-with-swords who put sand in his food and snakes in his bed. The Magus and Helen are far away in Eddis, Sophos is presumed dead...and what ever happened to Philonikes?!
...
If I were Gen, I'd probably want someone to punch me, too. Break up the monotony, like.

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fabricalchemist.livejournal.com

If I were Gen, I'd probably want someone to punch me, too. Break up the monotony, like.

*wipes tear* Never go back to lurking XD

I agree. He was probably lonely and bored. And I mean, with friends like that, Costis really doesn't need enemies... ;)

And yeah, WHERE did Philonikes ever wind up? *peers pointedly into the shadows*

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:D I agree, completely. I think you've got Gen down pretty well.

And Philonikes, it took me a few minutes to remember him, what the hell did happen to him? :D Perhaps everyone who knew Gen in Sounis still thinks he's rotting in that prison.

And, completely irrelevantly, I love your icon. :) *strokes Fry and Laurie*

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xie-kitchin.livejournal.com

I suppose it's the sign of a true nitpicker that, after three books, all I can wonder about is a guy who was mentioned once in the first twenty pages of the first book (who then conveniently disappears ~~a la '1984'~~...).

And, completely irrelevantly, I love your icon. :) *strokes Fry and Laurie*

Brit-love is never irrelevant! *joins in Jeeves-and-Wooster petting*

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I suppose it's the sign of a true nitpicker that, after three books, all I can wonder about is a guy who was mentioned once in the first twenty pages of the first book (who then conveniently disappears a la '1984'...).

*grins* But true nitpickers are to be saluted! I'm wondering if there are any other details that I've forgotten about now. The question of Philo's whereabouts is definitely going on my list of questions to include in future fanletters to the authoress. :)

As for the 1984 idea, it certainly would put another slant on Sophos' disappearance. ;)

Brit-love is never irrelevant! *joins in Jeeves-and-Wooster petting*

Is it Brit-love if you actually are a Brit? :) Jeeves and Wooster was fantastic, but I want to see Fry and Laurie doing Sherlock Holmes and Watson.

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but I want to see Fry and Laurie doing Sherlock Holmes and Watson.

*tries to imagine but fails*

Who would play whom?

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:D There were some rumours a while ago that Fry was going to be playing Sherlock Holmes in a programme for the BBC. I think I've grown accustomed to the idea. :) I can see Hugh Laurie making a good Watson. The half-moustache he sports on House convinced me. I can't quite get it out of my head. :D

Though Jeremy Brett will always be the real Sherlock Holmes. :)

...I wish I had a Sherlock Holmes icon now.

From:

xie-kitchin.livejournal.com

Laurie as Watson? But on 'House', his character is modeled after Sherlock...and Wilson is Watson, so if Laurie was Watson he'd be clueless like Bertie, only...@_@...my brain hurts.
(On a somewhat related note, I have Proclaimed from On High that Brit-love is always Brit-love, even when the Brit-lover is British.) BTW, If you're looking for Sherlock Holmes icons,

wens's icon journal (http://artintheblood.livejournal.com/) is definitely worth a look. ^_^

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Ask, Rowana, the you shall receive. God, you're good. And we are very glad you are a former lurker.

*sigh* Jeremy Brett.

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Ask, Rowana, the you shall receive. God, you're good. And we are very glad you are a former lurker.

:D *seconds the love*

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*sees icon and squees*

That icon is brilliant.

Laurie as Watson? But on 'House', his character is modeled after Sherlock...and Wilson is Watson, so if Laurie was Watson he'd be clueless like Bertie, only...@_@...my brain hurts.

I know, that was what originally got me hooked to the show (Holmes with a gameboy!) but...I can't see Fry as Watson. And Laurie has proven how versatile he can be in terms of acting. :) Perhaps I should stick to Brett and Burke.

(On a somewhat related note, I have Proclaimed from On High that Brit-love is always Brit-love, even when the Brit-lover is British.) BTW, If you're looking for Sherlock Holmes icons, wens's icon journal is definitely worth a look. ^_^

:D It feels a little narcisstic to be a Brit-loving Brit, but hey. *heads over to look for icons*

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