COMMUNITY READALONG PART 4: The Queen of Attolia, Chapters 8-13

[ilysia-039.livejournal.com]

Ladies, gentlemen, and reprobates, gather 'round for the next installment of the Community Read-Along! (And please remember: No spoilers for ACoK!)

Reading this week from: "Spring came earlier on the coast than it did in the mountains..." to "They would not risk a stop on the shore until it was time to disembark."

Favorite Lines:

- "He'd be stomping around in Attolia's grain fields right now if it weren't for you, and you know it.*" (pg 111)

- "Go on- without derogatory comments about people of my profession, please." (pg 119)

-"Oh, how inconspicuous I will be when next I am in Attolia, dressed in Eddisian formalwear with gold frogs on the front." (pg 153)

Favorite Scene: Honestly, I cannot choose, as this section is perhaps my favorite in the entire series. Curse this indecision!

Thoughts, Questions, Observations: There are more than two scribbled pages of these, believe it or not. So, I shall hide them in conveniently labeled cuts so that you can read or skip them at your leisure. Please chime in!

The War

This is the point at which we begin to see Gen's involvement in this lovely little war (we're rather thrown into it, actually). And how he does get involved: stealing the Magus, with the eternal line "the magus in question" (pg 106). This war, and the politics that surround it, is really one of the most interesting things, I think, in Queen. For one thing, it really shows Eddis off. And I so so love Eddis. Thoughts on the war? The Magus?

Eugenides

There's quite a lot going on here, so much that I can't but touch the surface. Firstly, there seems to be a new harshness to Gen (pg 112), yet he's also, as Eddis puts it, naïve (pg 119). But we get to see Gen being more than a thief, more than a sort of eminence grise, if you will. What do you see in the way he's changed? And, for that matter, how much has he changed?

Attolia

Wow. And we really begin to see more of Attolia here. Perhaps the most revealing (and amusing!) thing to me is all the different ways in which she's seen. We have Eddis calling her an "astute strategist" (pg 190) and yet also hinting that she's "edging towards insanity" (pg 186); Eddis (the country) cursing her name; Eugenides, well, doing his own thing; and Nahusaresh imagining her to be easily led. And we learn about her shadow princess past (pg 201). Thoughts about Attolia? How much of the Mede idea of her is her own mask, and how much is Nahusaresh's blindness?

Also of interest regarding Attolia are the glimpses we're given of just how alone she really is (pg 205, 219). Thoughts?

Next Week: The Queen of Attolia, chapters 14-21, led by jade_sabre_301.

*All quotes and references are from the paperback version with the lovely/terrifying hook on the cover.

Comments

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I haven't finished reading this selection, but I have FAILED at participating in these readalongs, so here's my first thoughts:

this section cements Attolia as one of my favorite, favorite, FAVORITE female characters--literary characters--of all time.

haters to the left, yo. :-b

[jade-sabre-301.livejournal.com]

I should add that--re: glimpses of her loneliness--I think of Gen, talking about those stone walls around her in the next section.

and they're just so sad. because she is all alone.

eta: also, I need an Attolia icon. Suggestions?

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

Simply put: I completely, whole heatedly agree with you. I love Eugenides with all my heart, but even in The Thief my favorite character was Attolia. I reserve my greatest respect and admiration for characters like her. Women who use all they have to keep themselves together by pushing away trust, love, and any sort of compassion, when in the end those are the things they need most to keep going. Why do I admire people like that? I don't know.

[puppeteergirl.livejournal.com]

I agree about Attolia. I somehow can't respect most literary female characters. When I first began to read QoA, I had automatically put Attolia into the "tough girl" cliche. Hearing her history and watching her emotional reaction to what she did to Gen made me take a second look at her personality, and finding her more complex made me love it all the more when Gen steals her heart!

Shiver me timbers! Here be a theory!

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

This one of my favorite sections. The interaction between Gen and Helen is just lovely here.

Favorite Line

Eddis had heard several people, out of the Thief's hearing, lamenting the loss of his acerbic comments on the court...

-p159

They miss Gen's wit. Ahhhh... Anyone would. He always makes you laugh. Even Relius appreciated it.

Now... Getting to the reason for my title.

"Piracy is continuing to grow at a rate that I am sure surprises no one here". There were a few chuckles from around the table they weren't surprised.

-p158 & p159

"She has the pirates".

-p242

Is that why the ministers of Eddis weren't surprised? Was Eddis already controlling the pirates to get supplies to her people?

Re: Shiver me timbers! Here be a theory!

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

That's what I always took it to mean. And then later, when Eugenides steers the boat into a tiny cove that isn't on any map there's an allusion to Eddis's pirates.
I think.

But this line, when the ministers are discussing the neutral islands confuses me:

"They've been warned not to resist and we'll hope for the best."
-p.122 (2000 hardcover)

This seems to imply that the neutral islands are actually Eddisian in nature. Couple that with the stealthy pirates and the kicking army and I now think of Eddis as a country full of ninja.

Re: Shiver me timbers! Here be a theory!

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

Whoa...Eddis was controlling the pirates? I thought that because Eddis blocked off the trade in her pass between Sounis and Attolia, both countries were know trading overseas, and that the abundance of ships with goodies on them increased piracy...O_O *throws hands up in the air like tiegirl* I AM NOT WORTHY!

[reader-marie.livejournal.com]

A few of my favorite things:

The entire scene where Gen steals the magus. So many things to love...

The story of Hespira and Horreon. ("I chose.")

The scene where Attolia destroys her dining room when she hears that the Thief of Eddis has resumed operations and is "close" to the queen. (167 the paperback boat-ride edition.) For one thing, she doesn't lose control like that very often, and usually only when Our Favorite Thief is involved. And for another, it reminds me of the scene in KoA where Gen destroys his bedroom. Once again, they are clearly made for each other.

This sentence: "Those in the rear struggled with block and tackle, roughly squared wooden beams, wooden carriages and cannon." (237) I'm not a big fan of grammar, but if I ever have to teach it, I will use this sentence as an example of Why Commas Matter. Many people (including me) would naturally put a comma at the end of the list ("wooden carriages, and cannon"). But this doesn't work here because...well, we find out in the next section why "wooden" has special significance here. MWT's brilliance extends even to punctuation.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

I have never noticed that before. OMH. Every time we discuss these books I learn something new. *is awefilled*

[ilysia-039.livejournal.com]

THE GRAMMAR.

!!!

[rosaleeluann.livejournal.com]

Oh wow--that is so awesome.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

TA pointed that out to me a couple of months ago. It is definitive proof that punctuation can change the meaning of a sentence. Proper punctuation really IS important. Mrs. Turner has once again taught us a life lesson.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

OH YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
I noticed this too. It's so ... [no words can describe awesomeness]
:) :) :)
Crafty, crafty!

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Favorite lines:

"Steal peace, Eugenides. Steal me some time."

"I can steal anything," Eugenides corrected him. "Even with one hand."

pg. 150 where the King of Sounis says, "If you can't say that more clearly, I can find someone else who can."

The part on the roof about heroes and throwing up - <3

pg.179 -- "Was my father here?" "Until half an hour ago. It was like having a basilisk in the room." ..."I'm glad I missed him." The magus, taking note of his unsteadiness, agreed. "I'm glad you missed him, too."

Other musings:
In the story on pg. 142 -- "Meredite was much taken aback. Mortals do not challenge the gods. Only once had a mortal dared and he'd been driven insane for his insolence." I wonder who it was?

The part where Gen offers to fetch the magus's papers and in retaliation Eddis offers the library to the magus as a place to work. I love it that Gen lives in the library.

The scene where Attolia throws dishes and a chair when she hears that Gen is back at work. It's so out of character for her. She must know that he'll likely be coming for her, next.

Chapter 10 is a nice sort of bridge chapter; Gen with his father, more of how Gen blames himself for the war, and Attolia with her attendants.

Chapter 11 is really a fabulous chapter, so many details are included without it ever slowing the story down - Continual small hints of how much Gen is changing--his shoes don't fit, he visits the amputees, relearns how to sword fight, attends council meetings. He's always done things on his own but now is forced into the light, and into a position of more power. "I fell into Attolia's trap" on pg. 170--again, the imagery that thieves fall when their god forsakes them. Then on pg. 191, where Gen has returned from his 10 days of hiding and sits in on the meeting with Eddis and her council, begins the brilliant misdirection where it appears that Gen is going to go off and kill Attolia. I certainly was fooled.

Pg. 218 -- what did you all think this meant: "She pulled the bedclothes back up as far as they would go and suppressed a perverse wish to have her old nurse come to chase away the darkness, perverse because she didn't know if she wanted the shadows to be empty or not."

My thoughts on this.....

[(Anonymous)]

"perverse b/c she didn't know if she wanted the shadows to be empty or not"--When I 1st read that phrase, i almost died: I thought, she is finally being a GIRL, she is wishing for someone, (Gen?) to be there, chase away her fears, her hurt, and, I believe to erase her memories of Eugenides in her prison. YES ATTOLIA! (Sometimes it's easy to forget how human she is, isn't it?)

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Ooh. As for that last quote, it's always been one of my favorites. I definitely associate not-empty shadows with Eugenides, and I think, maybe not overtly but in the back of her head, she does, too. I'm not sure if she wants Gen to be there, but I get the feeling it's another instance of her regret for what she did to him and a combination of (1) fear that it will come back and haunt her, either physically as in Gen kidnapping/killing her or emotionally as in she'll never get over the guilt; and (2) a desire to see him again and have a kind of closure---apology, finally doing the sensible thing and hanging him, whatever she thinks she wants there or whatever she's not aware she wants in the back of her mind. It seems like one of the most layered and significance-heavy sentences in the second book, concerning Attolia's changing emotional attitude toward Gen.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I'm reading too much into it, but I always feel, re that last quote about the shadows, that somehow Gen's clumsy, stalking attempt at courtship has gotten through to her a little -- that she senses that, at least when he was spying on her, she wasn't alone.

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Added to the quote on page 179.

That will be more effective than a lecture from your father.

You've never heard my father lecture.

Do you want to talk about them?

The lectures? Not really. He never says much, but it's always to the point.

Bwahahaa!

I love the MoW. He's got his own charm, however stoic and laconic that may be.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

It's obvious she's thinking about Gen here, but maybe not in a romantic way? See, I always thought that she knew Gen would come to kill her and she, oddly, didn't entirely wish he wouldn't. She felt she deserved it, and maybe felt ready for all her pain to come to an end. Morbid, huh?

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

"I can steal anything," Eugenides corrected him. "Even with one hand."
It's interesting when you think about how earlier Attolia asks, "What can you steal with one hand?" or something of the sort, and he replies, "Nothing."

Very good point about Ch. 11. I agree.

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

Um. What everyone said.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite bits in here is about the ruby earrings. "She never wore the rubies. They were kept in their own velvet case beside the one that held the headband."

I LOVE that the gift of the earrings may have precipitated this whole thing -- the hand-cutting, the war -- but does she throw them away? Give them to Chloe? No, she carries them around everywhere she goes and keeps them by her bedside! Ah, Attolia. So completely blind to her own feelings.

[ilysia-039.livejournal.com]

It's always the earrings. =D

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

I know my love speech for these books is unnecessary since everyone loves them, but I can't help it - I LOVE these books! Books are always going to be there. They can do no wrong, they do not judge, the never go away, and they never disappoint. Eugenides will always be waiting on my shelf for me. Like Yvainne tells Tristan in Stardust: "My heart, it feels like my chest can barely contain it!" That's how I feel about these books. I'm very glad Checkers found my QoA comic and brought me here. I'm so glad there are other people who feel the same way. =)
However, to tell you the truth...I..uh..well I knew the existence of this place before, and I contented myself to stalking before checkers prompted me to show my comic to you guys.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Ha, you made me think of that part in KoA where Relius wants the world to see what a king Gen is--same with you and your comic except really totally different. And now you have no free time and are obsessed with virtual discussions that never end.

Maybe I should be apologizing. :)

I LOVE CHAPTER NINE! I JUST HAD TO SAY IT!!!!!

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

A Lengthy List of Obsessive Gushing:
aka
THE LOOONG COMMENT OF DOOOOOM!

1. Gen to Magus in awesome scene: "We put on our pretty Sounisian unifroms and paddled over there in a shore boat and told them they were relieved from duty by order of the king. Or rather, my loyal assistants did. I'm not much use in a rowboat these days." (105 in hooky booky) In a rowboat?! Precisely! Foreshadowing (kind of)!!! Also, in this scene, It's such a change from the brooding depressiveness we saw before. He's showing his skills, joking, but there's also the "harshness/ruthlessness" that Ilysia and the Magus notice, as well as the fact that it takes the Magus saying that he'd be happy to see him dead at the bottom of a cliff to make him really laugh.

2. Gen to Magus also: "I would have prefered to slit Sounis's throat while he slept, but his heir is hardly ready to inherit the kingdom, and we can't have a civil war in Sounis for the Mede to step in and resolve, can we?" (p. 112) Now what would Sophos say about that?

3. I absolutely LOVE chapter 9. I mean, Ch.9 + Agh = True love. It is perhaps my favorite chapter in all of the books. Seriously, when I read this chapter, big pink hearts bubble out from my head and float above me all day. In an entirely un-creepy way. I love the Hespira/Horreon/Choice story, I love the Eddis-Magus-Gen dialogue, I love that they're sitting there having a picnic, I love the commander exchange, I LOVE IT ALL. Also, my name is there! (not a coincidence. heh.) Also, the eyebrow thing is mentioned for the first time.
>> The Magus asking about the hook/false hand. Eddis is surprised by this. It seems almost like she's more sensitive about Gen's handlessness than he is himself, though that can't be right. Also, when Attolia threatens to cut the other one off (after the mistress comment!!!), she stiffens, but Gen just laughs.
>> "Pensively she [Eddis] tried to brush away the crease between his brows. She knew the magus wondered at his bad temper." (p. 130) Is this because he's still conflicted/scared/wounded/brooding? Is it because of the "message" they're sending to Attolia about E&G being "close"? Is it because when the Magus comes into view Attolia will know he's still a threat and might want to go after him?
>> Attolia-destroying-stuff scene is very poignant.
>> In The Amazing Chapter 9, we actually get all 3 kingdoms. There's the new Magus (poor guy) talking to Sounis, and we get to hear him say "what the hell ..." a few times. I'm sorry, Your Majesty, but you're kind of a buffoon.

4. Really interesting description in Ch 10 describing Gen and his hook habits -- getting it on, phantom pain in missing hand, etc. This is the first time we really learn about it.

5. "Halfway through the meeting, he leaned his chair back against the map painted on the wall behind him and closed his eyes." (157) Like in KoA! It means he's paying attention!

6. Yes, yes, the roof scene. More floating pink hearts.

7. One of the Attolian islands is called Cymorene! (ok, sorry, wrong books...)

8. P. 170 in roof scene, Gen: "I fell and you sent me. She set the trap and sprang it because Sounis hounded her, and Sounis hounded her with the support of the magus, who fears the Mede..." I'm confused. What about Sounis hounding her?

9. p. 175: "...send him into the afterlife blind, deaf, and with his tongue cut out as well..." Gosh, I hate the guy who says that. Poor Eugenides. But of course, without the conveyed threat, we wouldn't have the "say you won't" line in KoA.

10. Agape, Agape. She really knows what's going on, and when she says "Being drunk is much better." (178), Gen doesn't drink any more w(h)ine at the table ... until he gets drunk after dinner, of course. Enivrez-vous isn't the advice for every occasion, Your Future Majesty. What makes him listen (temporarily) to Agape's advice? Her "sweetness"? Also, the MoW really seems to get grumpy when his son mentions alcohol. He's seriously uncomfortable when Gen, after his first night at dinner, says "wine is a pleasant substitute," and when he takes his father's glass at the Agape meal. Is this just because he knows it won't help his son, or did someone in the family have an alcohol problem that led to trouble?

Re: I LOVE CHAPTER NINE! I JUST HAD TO SAY IT!!!!!

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Re #7: Ah... The Enchanted Forest Chronicles. You're right. If a book has wizards being slain with buckets of soapy water mixed with a fresh lemon scent, you can't go wrong. Is that another allusion? I don't recall Mrs. Turner ever mentioning Wrede as being one of her favorite authors.

Re #10: Actually, I was just thinking about this. I finished QoA yesterday, and I've been pondering this part...

"Maybe you should drink less," the queen suggested. The man narrowed his eyes at the insult but didn't contest the implication that he was a drunk.

-p284 & p285

Did Gen's father abuse unwatered wine at some point in his youth? Is that why he reacted so strongly to Gen drinking heavily? It would explain Irene's seemly out-the-blue comment, which seems a bit odd in light of the fact that she knows she is speaking to the MoW. If not him, perhaps his father or brother.

It makes me wonder, because I've learned one can never read too far into things when it comes to QT.

the long comment of doom part 2

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

I'm really sorry, everyone. I'm such a space hog (snortsnortsnort).

11. I like the scene (but it's painful) when he asks Eddis to leave. I love the descriptions of how he acts around her in general, lying around on the steps, closing his eyes all the time, saying "Bleh." (185)

12. "And then I wish she'd hanged me. I wish in my god's name that she'd hanged me, and I hate that Mede." Nnnh--!

13. p.198-199. Phresine! Yay!

14. The transition to the Attolia backstory is really beautiful. The first time I read it, it awed me. This is really the first substantial look we get at her (yes, they're the little Staring Into The Night intervals, and the amphora story, but....). How it goes from the Medes, to hair oil, to amphorae, to dead brother, to arranged marriage, to shadow princess, to poisoning, to old nurse, to maskification, to The Earrings ...
15. "Kamet, I've noticed in you a distressing tendency to err in your pronouns of late." (208) Oh, Kamet, I love you. Also, the last paragraph of that chapter, talking about Attolia's "choices grew fewer and her freedom slipped away."14. The transition to the Attolia backstory is really beautiful. The first time I read it, it awed me. This is really the first substantial look we get at her (yes, they're the little Staring Into The Night intervals, and the amphora story, but....). How it goes from the Medes, to hair oil, to amphorae, to dead brother, to arranged marriage, to shadow princess, to poisoning, to old nurse, to maskification, to The Earrings ...

15. "Kamet, I've noticed in you a distressing tendency to err in your pronouns of late." (208) Oh, Kamet, I love you. Also, the last paragraph of that chapter, talking about Attolia's "choices grew fewer and her freedom slipped away."

16. I like Xenophon -- which means strange/foreign sound ...? Anyway, he's a good minor character who's there and then gone.

17. 16 men die in the march through the riverbed. Mwt puts in so much detail about the journey, which could have been completely short and unnoteworthy. The lifeloss makes it mean more. So many people die in this book.

18. "Celestial blue and yellow of Attolia's army." (220) Is this light, dark? *must know so I can wear attolian colors if there are any meetups in my area*

So, the shorter version of all this is: I LOVE THE QUEEN OF ATTOLIA! And also, all the other comments have been lovely and deep. We rock, you guys!

Re: the long comment of doom part 2

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Re #18: Attolia's throne room was blue and white and gold instead of the more somber red and black and gold of Eddis's.

-p344

So, we know both of their official colors.