Is he really that young...

[ex-drashizu726.livejournal.com]

I've been rereading the books lately, and I think Eugenides is way younger than we all thought he was. In The Thief, we know that Eugenides's mother died when he was ten years old (p. 275). We also know that Eugenides's big fight with his father occurred two years before the events of The Thief (p. 269), because Eugenides told his father he wanted to be the next Thief of Eddis (p. 225). Then, in The Queen of Attolia, we learn that Eugenides told his father his intentions immediately after his mother's death (pp. 48-49). Therefore we know that Eugenides was ten years old when he became the next Thief of Eddis --- making him twelve in The Thief, thirteen at the beginning of QoA, and fifteen at the end. That's a good three years younger than I previously believed (and slightly worrisome).

Also, I've come up with an easy (ha) way to approximate Attolia's age at the end of QoA. Just take Eugenides's age (15), add the number of years Eddis has reigned (7), add the number of years Attolia had been on the throne before Eddis's coronation (probably less than 5) and subtract the number of years' age difference between Eugenides now and Attolia when she first married (probably less than 3). That would make her around 25-ish, give or take a few years. I'm feeling better now that I can assume there's only a 10-year age difference between Gen and Irene instead of 20 or more, as I previously thought.

All page numbers refer to the new 2006 Eos editions.

Comments

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Interesting arithmetic! I never thought Eugenides and Irene were more than ten years apart in age, but I'm not sure I'm convinced that he is 15 at the end of QoA either. Must reread and see what clues I find.

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

I had figured him out to be about a year older than that for each book, because the starting point was mushy - just how close to 11 he was when his mother died, and while both Gen and his dad were still distraught over his mother's death, it may not have been immediately afterwards that they had their very public showdown.

One thing I really like about the KoA cover is how young Gen looks.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

Wow, um. I had figured something like 15 or 16. I guess I'm going on the basis that Gen announcing his intentions to his father when he was ten or eleven may not have happened immediately before their big fight, which happened, it says in the books, when Gen tore up his enrolement papers to the army. I doubt he'd have had enrolement papers at the age of eleven, I think Gen's dad must have not taken him seriously at first, and there must have been a gap of a few years. I can't see Gen being at the enroling age for the army until at least 15, which would make him about 16 or 17 in 'The Thief'.

[rowana.livejournal.com]

I forgot to say, great icon. :)

[cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com]

Wow, that took quite a bit of research. :)

Here's a Timeline (http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/22629.html#cutid1) by mycenaeth that might help with further calculations. Is it possible that more than a year passed between 'The Thief' and 'Queen of Attolia'? I don't really picture their age difference to be so large, but that might just be me...

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I'm with Ro on this. "during the last fight with your father" and "during an argument with my father" makes me think there were several fights. If Gen announced at 10 that he was going to be the next Thief of Eddis, I can't imagine his father just going along with it. I think they'd fight about it over a period of years, until Gen tore up the enrollment papers. I wonder if a small-for-his-age 12-year-old could go drinking in all the wine shops in Sounis?

I think you are right on the mark for Attolia's age. She couldn't be much older than mid-twenties and have Phresine say she is still a babe. Well, young, we all know she's a hot babe. :)

Perhaps all this just boils down to the fact that I find the idea of a 15-year-old marrying someone 10 years older who brutalized them more than a little unsettling.

[sandtree.livejournal.com]

Here's my take on his age. I have reasoning, I just can't remember it all off the top of my head right now. XD But it's there, I promise.

I figure he's 15 at the youngest in The Thief. Like Rowana said, the enrollment age for the army can't be that young, so really, he'd probably be more like 16 in The Thief. As checkers said, he'd have to be old enough to get away with drinking in wine shops. So that would make him 16-17 at the beginning of QoA, 18-19 at the end.

As for Irene's age, well, here we go... I always got the impression that she couldn't have been more than two or so years older than Helen, because she compared their childhoods as though they'd been about the same age. I also thought it couldn't have been more than about two years between the time Irene became queen and Helen did. At the end of QoA, Helen's been queen for 7 years, which would mean Irene had been queen for about 9.

Irene also says that she was "practically a child" when she became queen. "Practically a child" to me means early - mid teens. If she was fifteen when she became queen, she'd be 24 or 25 at the end of QoA. I know fifteen seems young, but that's the impression I got.

Thoughts?

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

I never thought so mathematically about it, but I still ended up with the impression that he's 18-19 to her 25-ish in KoA. I think I'd be kind of squicked to find he was much younger, even given that we're talking another (and entirely fictional) place and time.

[ex-drashizu726.livejournal.com]

Okay, okay. It was an idea, just to throw out there...I tried to back it up with quotes from the book but seeing as how I don't even believe it myself anymore, they're not much use. Secretly I'm kind of relieved. I always figured he was more around 15 at the start of The Thief, and when I noticed those lines when I reread the books (scouring, as usual, for any extra information I might have missed the last seventy times), I wasn't quite sure I liked the idea of a fifteen-year-old marrying a twenty-five-year-old, myself. Thanks for the comments, though, and thanks to cherryblosomjen for the wonderful timeline link which I already love.

[hemisofia.livejournal.com]

No, I think the original estimation was correct. His mother did indeed die when he was 10 - and Eddis seems like to have become queen around this time, because obviously she was in a position of power enough to "take in" Gen. (I can't see Eddis as a mere princess making this sort of decision.) At the end of The Thief, Eddis has already reigned for 5 years from what the magus said somewhere near the end of the book, which makes Gen at least 15 in that book.

Attolia's age is harder to estimate, actually. For all I know she could be anywhere between 20 to 35.

[(Anonymous)]

Megan says in the story written for Disney Adventures that Gen is ten. The story takes place when Eddis has just become queen - her brothers have just died. So he must be about 17/18 in QoA if Eddis has ruled 7 years by then.

emerald ;)

What about Gen always getting picked up?

[hershey-fan.livejournal.com]

After reviewing the comments, I only have one question: what about how everybody is always picking Eugenides up? He gets injured, then carried quite often. When Attolia sends him home after cutting off his hand, his father gathers him in his arms. You can't do that to a 17 or 18 year old...unless it's a very small 17 or 18 year old. This is what keeps me from pushing his age up in QoA, much as I'd like to.
Another observation: Attolia notes at some point in QoA, that Gen is older than she was when she was already married and widowed. (I think when he is sleeping) If this is so and she was married at 15 as noted above, then he might be 16 or older.
I need to read the Disney Adventures story , maybe that will clarify the issue for me.

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