Eddis, Attolia, Sounis

I had figured him out to be about a year older than that for each book, because the starting point was mushy - just how close to 11 he was when his mother died, and while both Gen and his dad were still distraught over his mother's death, it may not have been immediately afterwards that they had their very public showdown.

One thing I really like about the KoA cover is how young Gen looks.

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rowana.livejournal.com

Wow, um. I had figured something like 15 or 16. I guess I'm going on the basis that Gen announcing his intentions to his father when he was ten or eleven may not have happened immediately before their big fight, which happened, it says in the books, when Gen tore up his enrolement papers to the army. I doubt he'd have had enrolement papers at the age of eleven, I think Gen's dad must have not taken him seriously at first, and there must have been a gap of a few years. I can't see Gen being at the enroling age for the army until at least 15, which would make him about 16 or 17 in 'The Thief'.

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I had forgotten about the enrolement papers. Darn. And I thought I was so close, too. I still think that the fight occurred when Gen told his father he wanted to be the Thief, because I don't know why it wouldn't have happened then; it is possible, though, that there was some time between Gen's mother's death and Gen's announcement. Long enough to account for Gen being enrolled in the armed but short enough to account for the minister of war still grieving.

From:

kitsune-rains.livejournal.com

Regarding the enrollment papers, I feel like since Eddis is a country known for its soldiers that ten or eleven isn't too early to start their training. Wouldn't they have at least a few years before being put on the front line? And as Attolia (I think) said, they have little else to do in the mountains during winter.

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rowana.livejournal.com

I forgot to say, great icon. :)

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Thanks :)

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cherryblosomjen.livejournal.com

Wow, that took quite a bit of research. :)

Here's a Timeline (http://community.livejournal.com/sounis/22629.html#cutid1) by

mycenaeth that might help with further calculations. Is it possible that more than a year passed between 'The Thief' and 'Queen of Attolia'? I don't really picture their age difference to be so large, but that might just be me...

From: (Anonymous)

Right?

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I'm with Ro on this. "during the last fight with your father" and "during an argument with my father" makes me think there were several fights. If Gen announced at 10 that he was going to be the next Thief of Eddis, I can't imagine his father just going along with it. I think they'd fight about it over a period of years, until Gen tore up the enrollment papers. I wonder if a small-for-his-age 12-year-old could go drinking in all the wine shops in Sounis?

I think you are right on the mark for Attolia's age. She couldn't be much older than mid-twenties and have Phresine say she is still a babe. Well, young, we all know she's a hot babe. :)

Perhaps all this just boils down to the fact that I find the idea of a 15-year-old marrying someone 10 years older who brutalized them more than a little unsettling.

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I wonder if a small-for-his-age 12-year-old could go drinking in all the wine shops in Sounis?

Very good point! I hadn't considered that (although I doubt they had a legal drinking age, back in that place and time).

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(page 225 of The Thief) [Sophos says] "Was he [your father] very angry when you turned out to be a thief?"

I thought of the fight when I'd torn up my enrollment papers for the army. "Yes."

-----
I've always figured they were the same fight, because of that line. Again, though, I originally didn't figure that being enrolled in the army would come with any logical age restrictions, and I agree that Gen was probably not enrolled in the army at 11.

From:

sandtree.livejournal.com

I think maybe he declared his intention of being Thief when he was younger, and then the tearing up of the enrollment papers happened later and was sort of the final... thing.

From:

hemisofia.livejournal.com

Yup, that's the impression I've always had too. I can't imagine this sort of argument was over and done with in one fight LOL

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...but I forgot to add, I think "turning out to be a thief" doesn't necessarily refer to Eugenides's informing his father of his choice. I take back what I said to Ro earlier (gah, you're all such good debators). They might have fought on and off for a few years before the matter was settled.

From:

sandtree.livejournal.com

Yeah, too bad I didn't see this comment before I replied to the one above it. XD

From:

norell leung (from livejournal.com)

I think the most specific passage alluding to Gen and Attolias' age difference is the part where they first talk about the time when Gen saw her dancing in the palace gardens amidst the cabbages as a young, lonely girl.

Although it wasn't specified exactly, it seems as if they were BOTH children then... "How old were you, six?" Attolia asks. (p. 248). "Older than that." he replies. Certainly the imagery of Irene in a white dress is meant to express that this was when she was young and innocent, before her brother was assassinated and she hadn't yet been broken by her arduous battle to escape the patriarchy and hold her throne.

If Eugenides was 7 or 8 when his grandfather took him to the Attolian palace and he stole away to watch Irene dance under the orange trees.. I imagine she is 12? 13? 14? implying a mere 6-7 year age difference between them...

From:

sandtree.livejournal.com

Here's my take on his age. I have reasoning, I just can't remember it all off the top of my head right now. XD But it's there, I promise.

I figure he's 15 at the youngest in The Thief. Like Rowana said, the enrollment age for the army can't be that young, so really, he'd probably be more like 16 in The Thief. As checkers said, he'd have to be old enough to get away with drinking in wine shops. So that would make him 16-17 at the beginning of QoA, 18-19 at the end.

As for Irene's age, well, here we go... I always got the impression that she couldn't have been more than two or so years older than Helen, because she compared their childhoods as though they'd been about the same age. I also thought it couldn't have been more than about two years between the time Irene became queen and Helen did. At the end of QoA, Helen's been queen for 7 years, which would mean Irene had been queen for about 9.

Irene also says that she was "practically a child" when she became queen. "Practically a child" to me means early - mid teens. If she was fifteen when she became queen, she'd be 24 or 25 at the end of QoA. I know fifteen seems young, but that's the impression I got.

Thoughts?

From:

Attolia's age always appeared to me to be exactly the age you suggested here. I always thought she was relatively close to Eddis's age, too (and while we're at it, I always figured Eddis was twenty-ish or maybe twenty-one, that being about halfway between Gen and Irene's ages).

From:

norell leung (from livejournal.com)

I haven't done any specific calculations myself but could it be possible that although Irene is older than Helen, she was crowned at a younger age? So maybe although it was made clear that Irene was the significantly more experienced queen (upon "pouring the vitriol into Helen's ears"), she's only a year or two older?

From:

madclairvoyant.livejournal.com

He could be that young; boys in the past, especially in countries like Sparta, has boys trained form as young as seven in the arts of war. And Eddis always seems to be sort of reminiscent of Sparta with me, with its militaristic reputation.

From:

norell leung (from livejournal.com)

There seems to be more military/war/fighting emphasis in Eddisian culture than in Attolian:
-There's that part in QofA where someone mentions that the Eddisian army is particularly badass because they have "little to do all winter other than train for war."
-QofA narrates that Irene "doesn't pretend to be a soldier" and is again, envious of Helen because she has been trained in the art of war since she was 8 years old and "while not as dangerous as a soldier, Helen could fight her own battles, if she chose."
-CofK where Sophos is running after Helen and her entourage of guards and attendants after Helen leaves him after their fight and every individual in that entourage points a weapon at Sophos, including her female attendants, likely meaning that all Eddisian women were trained to handle weapons and fight to some degree.

From:

nutmeg3.livejournal.com

I never thought so mathematically about it, but I still ended up with the impression that he's 18-19 to her 25-ish in KoA. I think I'd be kind of squicked to find he was much younger, even given that we're talking another (and entirely fictional) place and time.

From:

squicked

Had to look this one up in the Urban Dictionary. I like.

From:

nutmeg3.livejournal.com

Hmmm, that makes two words I've made people look up. This may be a bad thing. But...what's the Urban Dictionary? It sounds like it could be fun for an avowed wordaholic like me.

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Popular slang words.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

From:

nutmeg3.livejournal.com

Great site. Thanks. :-)

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Educational, not bad.

And the link was posted while I was looking for the word. I'll try again.

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spill it sister! I looked, but couldn't find it.

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1. Noun. The physical sense of repulsion upon encountering a concept or situation one finds disgusting.
2. Noun. A situation or concept which engenders this reaction.
3. Verb, transitive. To cause someone to have this reaction.
4. Verb, intransitive. To experience this reaction.

I, too, was squicked indeed. There--doesn't it sound natural coming from me? :)

From:

Okay, okay. It was an idea, just to throw out there...I tried to back it up with quotes from the book but seeing as how I don't even believe it myself anymore, they're not much use. Secretly I'm kind of relieved. I always figured he was more around 15 at the start of The Thief, and when I noticed those lines when I reread the books (scouring, as usual, for any extra information I might have missed the last seventy times), I wasn't quite sure I liked the idea of a fifteen-year-old marrying a twenty-five-year-old, myself. Thanks for the comments, though, and thanks to cherryblosomjen for the wonderful timeline link which I already love.

From:

hemisofia.livejournal.com

No, I think the original estimation was correct. His mother did indeed die when he was 10 - and Eddis seems like to have become queen around this time, because obviously she was in a position of power enough to "take in" Gen. (I can't see Eddis as a mere princess making this sort of decision.) At the end of The Thief, Eddis has already reigned for 5 years from what the magus said somewhere near the end of the book, which makes Gen at least 15 in that book.

Attolia's age is harder to estimate, actually. For all I know she could be anywhere between 20 to 35.

From: (Anonymous)

Yes, it says in The Thief, chapter 12, about Eddis:"In her five-year reign she'd won the loyalty and love of her subjects."

emerald ;)

From: (Anonymous)

Megan says in the story written for Disney Adventures that Gen is ten. The story takes place when Eddis has just become queen - her brothers have just died. So he must be about 17/18 in QoA if Eddis has ruled 7 years by then.

emerald ;)

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OMG, emerald. You are a genius. This may finally be confirmation of Gen's age.

I just reread the Disney Adventures story. It takes place when Gen is 10. The King of Eddis is dying and his two sons are dead. His daughter will soon inherit the throne. It seems as if Gen's mother is still alive, and he is still living in the boy's dormitory.

If Helen became queen when Gen was 10, and in QoA the Magus says Helen has been on the throne for 7 years, that would make Gen 17 around the middle of QoA.

From: (Anonymous)

*grins* I can't believe no-one spotted that before!

emerald-manymouths
:DDDDD

From:

hershey-fan.livejournal.com

After reviewing the comments, I only have one question: what about how everybody is always picking Eugenides up? He gets injured, then carried quite often. When Attolia sends him home after cutting off his hand, his father gathers him in his arms. You can't do that to a 17 or 18 year old...unless it's a very small 17 or 18 year old. This is what keeps me from pushing his age up in QoA, much as I'd like to.
Another observation: Attolia notes at some point in QoA, that Gen is older than she was when she was already married and widowed. (I think when he is sleeping) If this is so and she was married at 15 as noted above, then he might be 16 or older.
I need to read the Disney Adventures story , maybe that will clarify the issue for me.

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Good points! That makes me think of romance stories where the hero manages to carry the beautiful girl, and maybe Gen isn't much bigger than that.

Do you need a copy of the Disney Adventures story?

From:

If so, you can download it here for the next 7 days:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?actionfiltered=download&ufid=02ECC87E453F438B

From:

hershey-fan.livejournal.com

Yes, I REALLy need a copy of the Disney Adventures story. If that's an offer, I'll certainly take you up on it. I can post my email or if you have a place where it's posted, that would be great! I've heard of Yousend.com or something like that, but have never used it before.
Thanks again.

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