COMMUNITY READALONG PART 6: The King of Attolia, Prologue - Chapter 5

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

Onward we march, getting closer each day to ACoK! Huzzah!   But please no ACoK spoilers!


Reading from line: The queen waited.
Ending at line: Costis walked on through the palace and down to the Guard's barracks, knowing himself entirely guilty of what the king had not condescended to accuse him of.

(page numbers from hardback edition)

General Thoughts/Questions:
We're on our third POV and I know it's been discussed before but thoughts again? I love the POV switches as I feel they lend depth to the stories. Can you imagine KoA from other perspectives?

Right off in the Prologue I'm struck by mwt's fantastic turns of phrase. Something as simple as "unsubstance" is really quite fantastic.

When do we get Ornon's book? :)

Was KoA the first in the series you read? If so, what were your initial thoughts on the characters? After reading the whole series? This was not the first I read and I've always wondered what I would have thought if it was the first in the series I came by.

Detailed Thoughts/Questions:

Favorite Scene: It's a tie between the Eddisian style dance and the audience with Relius after the informants return from the Mede empire to report to Their Majesties.

Favorite lines:
p. 22 - "That was terrifying, but I suppose you are used to excitement?"
      - Eugenides smiled, entirely without royal dignity, and left. (You mean like a Thief?:)

p. 44 - He struggled to imagine her own mother kissing the queen and balked, seeing instead an adult Attolia somehow shrunk to the size of a child.

p. 54 - "If we are not valuable, why should she defend us?" Teleus asked.

p. 71 - He put the ring back on his finger and went to bed, trying to think of other things.

p. 93/4 - Short of throwing a dinner roll at him, there was no way to get his attention.

p. 98 - She knew that. It worried her.

p. 109 - "I do," Aris admitted. "But, as a low-minded and practical sort of fellow, I'm glad someone has ideals and sticks to them."


Random stuff:

A brief comment about writing style rather than story: I think mwt is a master of characterization and I only noticed on this reading how deftly she illustrates character by the way everyone projects their personal feelings on the the match of Attolia and Gen. It's a very natural way to get to know everyone, feeds well into the plot and allows us to learn how Gen and Attolia are presenting themselves to the court at this point. mwt's craft is truly stunning.



p.14 - I love how Costis already has Gen's number: "conniving bastard."

Gen hates ceremony, spotlight, etc but do you get the impression that he enjoys adding "kingly wiles" to his toolbox of manipulation and sneakeration?

How do you think Costis might behave differently if he, like Aris, came from a non-landed family?

p. 21 - Teleus is instructed to take the bargain. He's surprised by this but had he not also failed? Is it not his purview to ensure that the king is safe? Or, because it was the attendants causing trouble, were the pranks not something he would know about?

p. 23 - Here begins the mostly omniscient asides that don't come from Costis' POV. What do you think is the purpose of these? Clarity? A more intimate look at characters that some readers will have a lot of familiarity with? Can you imagine the book without them? Do you think they give the mystery away at all?

p. 46 - Gen to Costis: "I thought you grew up on a farm." At first blush this seems like a sarcastic dig. But we learn that Gen actually wants to know about this type of thing. Do you think he was genuinely puzzled that Costis didn't know this?

p. 72 - My little heart goes out to Relius here who is trying so hard to do right by his queen and having no idea there's really no need to try to hide anything from Gen. Cuz ya know, Attolia would tell him and he probably already knows.

I get the impression that the threat of the Thief of Eddis was not widely broadcast in Attolia. Teleus and Relius clearly feel he is a threat (even if they don't know what kind) but wouldn't others in her court have known what type of person he was other than T and R? Why do so many people underestimate him? Or do you think we are only exposed to those that do as they are relevant to the story?

p. 79 - After Gen's nighttime visit to the deceitful baron and Attolia's response the scene ends with: She crossed her arms and refused to speak to him again. Why is that? Seems like he did something useful. Do you think she's annoyed at his methods?

Gen says that he smacked Costis in the side of the face during practice because he lost his temper. With whom? Is he annoyed at Costis for not coming round faster or did he lose his temper in general. And while we're on this... despite appearances, even up to this point, I think it's clear that Gen likes Costis more than he lets on. However, he's really hard on Costis. I mean, really hard. Why do you think that is?

p. 101 - I can picture this dance scene so well and when it is over and I'm imagining Attolia's hair and skirts swinging back into place I see Gen smiling (beaming really) at her and I hear his mental voice say, "This is My Queen."

p. 106 - Why do you think Gen had such a public beginning to his conversation with Dite? And speaking of Dite, we're given the impression that Attolia is as lovable as a piece of steel. Were you surprised to learn that someone other than Gen was in love with her?

p. 122 - "...In my experience, patronoi, my opponent's self-confidence is usually my best asset." This puts me in mind of the Jewel quote: Your underestimation of me will be my greatest weapon. (from memory, hope it's correct)

And even though this post has probably become way too long (but where else can I gush and gush about QT to people who will understand:), I have one last question because it's one of my favorite discussions: Why do you think Gen's outing of Relius was public? This was discussed a couple months ago and you can click here to see what I and a couple others were sharing.


I can't wait to see what interests everyone from the random stuff I posted and/or any other topics.

Comments

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

Loved the POV change. Since I read the books in order, KoA was a different experience. Costis didn't know that Gen was up to something, but I did. It was very refreshing to know something the narrator did not, and I got to giggle at his ignorance. I got to watch him come to the same realizations about Gen as I did, and for once I got to watch Gen pull the wool over everyone else's eyes. It was like being in on a big secret.


I get the impression that the threat of the Thief of Eddis was not widely broadcast in Attolia. Teleus and Relius clearly feel he is a threat (even if they don't know what kind) but wouldn't others in her court have known what type of person he was other than T and R? Why do so many people underestimate him? Or do you think we are only exposed to those that do as they are relevant to the story?

Possibly.. But one thing I've learned about people is that they tend to take things at face value. Gen can hide things so well that no one thinks to even look for them. They saw Gen the way he choose to present himself: a blundering idiot. Of course... Gen was doing this to avoid taking the reigns of power publicly, and therefor is his own worst enemy... but... That's a whole different discussion.

p. 79 - After Gen's nighttime visit to the deceitful baron and Attolia's response the scene ends with: She crossed her arms and refused to speak to him again. Why is that? Seems like he did something useful. Do you think she's annoyed at his methods?

More like she is just exasperated with him. He could have called the baron on his deceit in the throne room with the same result, thereby asserting his power as king and revealing his true nature. But... he instead, handled the matter with a method he was more familiar with: MAD NINJA SKILLS!


Gen says that he smacked Costis in the side of the face during practice because he lost his temper. With whom? Is he annoyed at Costis for not coming round faster or did he lose his temper in general. And while we're on this... despite appearances, even up to this point, I think it's clear that Gen likes Costis more than he lets on. However, he's really hard on Costis. I mean, really hard. Why do you think that is?

Gen lost his temper because of the song and his frustration with the matters at hand (I know... Bad joke). He lost his concentration, and therefore resorted to what is more natural to him: MAD DUELING SKILLZ!

He's training Costis and is therefore trying to prepare him for what Costis may have to face in the future. I never felt like Gen was being cruel. I saw it more like the kid who teases their younger sibling, because they are fond of them. At the heart of it, Gen really respects Costis and looks after him. Gen also admires his loyalty. That's why he is a bit hard on him.

Not to mention, it was really funny.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

Now that you mention it it makes so much sense that Gen would be using opportunities for training Costis. I know it's hinted that he has plans for Costis but I never put that together in my mind. Excellent point!


So since she's exasperated do you think she wants him to give up the ninja!skills or it's that she wants him to couple them with kingly!skills?

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I think Gen smacked Costis because the song brought up his intense jealousy of Dite and his frustration at not being able to do just smack Dite or have him executed (which technically he could, but that's gotta be even harder to live with).

The POV shifts: what I chiefly notice about these is how they don't bother me. Which is pretty amazing. I often read like a writer and dissect things, perhaps too much, so shifts in POV often jar me. But here they just seem natural. It's a neat trick.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I also read the smacking scene as you describe but was curious about how it struck (heh) others. Gen seems to only want to punish those that deserve it so he must have been very mad indeed to take out his anger on Costis.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

Well, he does tell Irene later that he was "wildly" jealous.

[spellcoats.livejournal.com]

What's this?! I've finally caught up to the readalong?! YES!!!

Will comment with something constructive later.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Good for you. I have fallen behind (Boohooooo!) because I am a bad fan and don't have a copy of KoA. I need to go on another Crazy Quest, I think...

[reader-marie.livejournal.com]

Reading KoA was the highlight of my week. Just thought I should say that. A few thoughts:

The point of view in this book is a treat to read. Since the first two books have gotten us into the heads of Gen and Attolia so much, it's a lot of fun to see what Costis, Ornon, and Relius are thinking too.

One of the things I've been noticing in this book is how much emphasis Costis puts on appearances. After all, when he explains why he hit Gen, he says, "Because you didn't look like a king" (13). To a certain extent, appearances are all Costis, or anyone else, have to judge the new king by, since they don't know him at all. But one of the things Costis, not to mention the rest of the court, has to learn is that Gen doesn't have to look like a king in order to be a good one.

I,too, love the dancing scene with all my heart.

About Dite: I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about him. In terms of his love for Attolia, I admit that Attolia, as she appears to her court, certainly does't seem very loveable--but then, Gen has seen her at her cruelest and still loves her, so there's no reason to suppose that wouldn't be true of Dite as well. I risk extreme displeasure from some people here by saying that I'm still not sure I like Dite that much...but I think he's growing on me.

Did anyone else find it hard to stop at the end of this reading? I always feel so bad for Costis at this point that I want to rush on until things begin to go better...

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

The reality of his crime was not as important as the seeming.

The reality of appearances is an interesting matter Mrs. Turner addresses in her series. People tend to take things at face value and put too much weight on image. Costis does it without really meaning to, because he has nothing else to go on. It's human nature to look for a base of knowledge, a profile so to speak, and apply it to give oneself grounding. It's why we have stereotypes. Those who open their eyes and look deeper may glimpse the truth.

"Because I have eyes to see, Your Majesty."

We do it ourselves when reading The Thief. If one takes everything at face value, Gen appears to be just a smart-mouthed low-life with great skill yet little intelligence. If people think they already know all there is to know, they rarely ask questions even when something doesn't quite make sense. They'll make everything fit into the realm of their preexisting knowledge. We see Gen's attendants do this.

"The queen must appear to support the king."

People must be convinced in order to change their minds, and when faced with evidence, they often still attempt to deny the truth. People don't like to admit that they may be wrong.

Of course, Gen and Irene use this to their advantage, which makes them master manipulators of pretense.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I love the attention to appearance that you and reader_marie point out. I don't think this is something that I was overly attentive to (other than Gen's disguises) but I see it completely now.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

Great point on the appearances; I love the examples that ninedaysaqueen added below.

You know, I don't think much about Dite at all. From the little we see of him my only impression has to do with wondering what type of person he will turn out to be now that he can leave. I imagine it will be quite different from who he might have become if he had to stay.

YES! I find it very hard to stop reading here. I often flip to the funny fight between Costis and Gen at the end just for some solace. :)

[tiegirl.livejournal.com]

More to come later, but I had to answer the "loveable Attolia" question with a trademark snarky comment. She's beautiful, a Queen, and we're talking men, here. Don't imagine much actual thought went into it...

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

*giggle*

Think? Since when do guys think about why they like the girl they like? They just start pursuing her.

Hee... Hee...

No wonder there are so few guys on this comm. We scare them away with too much girl-talk.

[philia-fan.livejournal.com]

I also get the feeling that Dite's affection is sort of like courtly love, where the object of affection is idealized. He is a poet/musician, after all. One wonders how well Dite actually KNOWS Attolia. I'd guess not very well.

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

OH, interesting! I'm going to keep this in mind for the rest of my reading.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

p. 106 - Why do you think Gen had such a public beginning to his conversation with Dite?

Aside from the fact that it gives Costis the opportunity to show the reader this scene firsthand, I think Gen's introductory remarks to Dite in the garden were intended for the benefit of his guards. Specifically Costis, since he was the one whose opinion Gen was trying to change. Seeing the way Dite and the king treated each other before the conversation made a sharp contrast with their friendly farewell afterward. "Have lunch with me tomorrow?" "Thank you, YM. I'd be honored." (I'm using the ebook version so no page numbers, unforuntately.) None of them, Costis included, knows what to think about it---but they all saw "the evidence of their own eyes," as Costis thinks later. It starts them wondering what the king could possibly have said to Dite to have that kind of effect. And, of course, it starts the reader wondering, too.

And then there's the practical side. He didn't really have that public a conversation, since we're told in the preceding breakfast scene that he ordered his attendants to stay away and only brought Teleus and a squad of guards with him. The guards are probably considered (by everyone other than Gen, at least) to be a necessary protection, and Gen does ask Teleus if he's cleared the garden before going in with Dite, as if that were all Teleus was there for in the first place.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Oh and also, perhaps he wanted witnesses to spread the rumor of what had happened. The next section begins, "By the day's end, the entire palace knew of Dite's defection to the king's support." So somebody must have talked, as I'm sure Eugenides would have predicted would happen (whether or not he particularly cared).

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Yes, I wonder if he particularly cared. It always strikes me as unfair to Attolia that he went ahead and told everyone (well, only Dite directly, but the news spread) that she had cried. Doesn't this sort of weaken Attolia's image, or at least make everyone hate the king more for making their Big Tough Cruel Queenypoo cry?

But does he WANT that? Neither he or Attolia seem to care about what people are thinking about them (except Attolia wanting Gen to prove himself and CHANGE what everyone thinks about him). And she doesn't seem mad when she's talking to Relius later about it. (Maybe Gen asked her -- "Um, Irene dear, I'm intending to tell virtually everyone that you cried on our weddding night. That alright with you?")

...nnnh. I don't know. I need to read it again. (Non-KoA-owning FAIL!)

AND--! I love your new icon! No wonder he wants it so much.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Hey, thanks! :) That does look like a scrumptious stack of pancakes, no?

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

I also wonder a lot about what Attolia thinks of all these antics. It reminds me of something I didn't mention in my post (I know, hard to believe I left anything out of that long thing:) but I really miss hearing from the ladies in this book. Not only because I love the queens but because the book is very much from all the masculine perspectives and I'd be interested in more from the other side.

A Man's World???

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Hmm, interesting. The only prolonged insight we get into Attolia in KoA is when she's talking to Relius about Gen, or what we learn about her through Gen himself.

Antics. Heehee.

[lizzyazula.livejournal.com]

No time to read the book (Again,) but I remember reading this book for the first time. I do not recommend memorizing books, it's better to read a book I'm familiar with, but haven't memorized. To stop myself from memorizing, I don't allow myself to read books more than twice a week (I try to space out to once every 2-3 months.) But with the King of Attolia I couldn't help myself!! The book is a form of drugs, I tell you! Every time I finished reading it, I said to myself "Just one more time...this is the last time!" KoA now belongs in my Memorized Books group with Ella Enchanted and Prisoner of Azkaban. Fail.

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

What are you talking about?!? That is NOT a fail. That is something that I instantly respect you for.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

p. 93/4 - Short of throwing a dinner roll at him, there was no way to get his attention.

I do love that line. And "For the assassination or the heir, Your Majesty?" asked Costis.

[drashizu.livejournal.com]

Total agreement. Even four years later I burst out laughing *every* *single* *time* I reread that line. It's just so perfect. And I love that Gen laughs afterward---Costis is appalled, but Gen thinks it's hilarious.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I've wondered how hard it was to write that part--not Costis's line, but the part that Gen says before, so that it sets everything up perfectly for Costis's zinger. Seems like it would have been hard to get it just right. But what a payoff!

[sgwordy.livejournal.com]

This is a laugh out loud funny one for me, too. I even remember the first time I read it: I was at first stunned thinking, "Costis, no you didn't!" and then laughing so hard.