The Hands of the Gods in Thick as Thieves (SPOILERS under cut)

[piartemis18.livejournal.com]

Hello everyone! Been watching the community for several years and figured it was time to log back in to LJ and join up proper, so hi. May see some of you Salt Lake folks tomorrow night!

Ever since I finished TaT Wednesday night I've been pondering the references to gods in the book. Last night (as I'm rereading but haven't gotten very far yet) I had an epiphany that has made me want to list everything I can remember (without my book in front of me) and see what you guys think and if you have any thoughts or additions!


So it's pretty universally accepted that the wine merchant is Immakuk and the camel guy is Ennikar.

But I also immediately assumed that the farmer with one rheumy eye was also a representation of Immakuk (it was the one-eye thing). Does that sound reasonable? Else why mention his eye?

The epiphany I had was when Kamet goes back to rescue Costis from the well and IMMEDIATELY almost gets stabbed in the eye by a splinter. It made me think of when Gen gets a feather-shaped divot cut out of his cheek and knew it was a sign of Eugenides' approval. I think the close-to-eye injury (while luckily not actually getting his eye) was also an indication of godly approval for his course of action. I actually did expect someone to lose an eye by the end of the book, I wonder if Costis and Kamet know how lucky they were.

One thing I have been wondering, though, is how Costis was able to recognize Ennikar when he saw him. Was it because of the play? He didn't seem surprised by godly assistance, was it because he had a fever or had he been helped along the way outside Kamet's perception?

I also wonder WHY Ennikar and Immakuk were getting involved. Aren't they Mede gods (or, I guess, immortals)? Why are they helping the Attolian steal a Mede slave? Maybe they're buds with Eugenides and he called in a favor?

Anyway that's all I remember right now.

Comments

[manderelee.livejournal.com]

(This is getting dramatic. Does what I'm getting at make sense to anyone else?)

Yes!! I've tried to think about the mythology in the book, as strange as it seems, to be little more than Red Bull for plot. Something that started to bother me in KoA, but was only magnified in TaT was how every culture seems to be secure in their beliefs somehow of their own gods, and have very little conflict in terms of religion. I do wonder why people aren't more... defensive of their gods. Is everyone just in agreement that *all* the gods could potentially co-exist, and merely choose to worship the ones that belong to their pantheon? So far, I haven't seen arguments of "My gods are real and yours aren't!" type of thing. And TaT definitely confirms that all the gods are real.

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

Do you think they all believe in their gods as real figures, though? I think most of the population is still convinced they're borne of legends. I always go back to that line - maybe in TT? - about the gods' names being used for cursing and little else.

Perhaps it's like when Costis tried to defend Gen in KoA, and the rest of the Guard laughed at him. They don't have the personal experience, so they're not inclined to believe.

[manderelee.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, perhaps you're right. Nobody would really get defensive over something they don't believe in. But what about the Eddisians, many of whom do believe? I wonder what they think about the other gods being real then?

[beth-shulman.livejournal.com]

I think that the last book is going to have to address these types of questions!

Which is to say, in response to your question: I don't know!

[ninedaysaqueen.livejournal.com]

It said in QoA that most people don't believe any gods are real and they're more cultural symbols.

"People used their gods for swearing and little else."

However, most of our narrators already believed they were real or come to believe over the course of the book.

Gen, Sophos, Helen, and Irene didn't seem to believe till the gods started showing up and meddling in their lives. Gen even laughs at the concept of the Eddisians believing in their gods.

Costis was one of the few who already believed. I'm not sure about Kamet.

I wonder if it's one of those things that has power only when people believe in it? I watch too much Doctor Who...

[savithny.livejournal.com]

I don't get a strong impression that Kamet believes deeply in "the gods." He likes the stories and is proud of his ability to translate both the words and the *meaning* of the stories into Attolian.

But the particular gods of these stories are far closer to heroes/demigods of the ancient world - they're not world-creators, they're larger-than-life heroes with mythic-level powers, so "believing" in them is a different level of faith than the Eddisians faith in Hephestia (for instance).

[agh-4.livejournal.com]

Red Bull for the plot, nice. :) I am torn between accepting them as that, because it rings true to me and emphasizes the importance/strength of Kamet and Costis's relationship, and trying to puzzle out exactly how and why the different pantheons would collaborate, which is very open-ended (this whole post is helpful, though)!

There must be some people out there in Eddis/Attolia/anywhere who have to come to terms with other countries' gods existing. It would be really interesting if the last book expanded on their coexistence and/or common goals; I hope it does!

[sclerotia.livejournal.com]

They don't have to defend their gods. They assume there are multiple gods and may worship different gods at different times. The gods aren't running a contest with the winner having the most worshipers, the most exclusive worshipers, or the most sacrifices. Costis wore a ring in honor of Miras, but he also prayed to Philia as he ran to Eugenides rescue. Eugenides offers to pay off Costis' debt without knowing to which God it will be dedicated and when he realizes it is not one of his gods says only "I see. I suppose it's good to curry favor where you can. You never know who might rescue you when you overreach."