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queensthief2017-06-23 05:45 pm
11rod88staff11.livejournal.com) wrote in queensthief2017-06-23 05:45 pm
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Obliteration of Outdated Archetypes in MWT’s Queen’s Thief Saga
MWT saw the hegemonic patriarchal, traditionally binary stories of old and flipped them around upon their heads. Saw duality and gave us the spectrum of all infinite possibility and Oneness in its place:
-Both the queens are older than their kings.
-Both the queens are more experienced than their kings.
-The female main characters are comfortable in their power while the male main characters are initially hesitant about accepting their power.
-Helen and Irene are predominantly extroverted while Sophos and Eugenides are predominantly introverted.
-The male characters shed far more tears in far more heart-shattering sobs collectively than the female characters across the series although all of them have their emotionally vulnerable moments that cement our love for them.
-Irene is taller than Eugenides.
-The Queen of Eddis carries herself like a soldier, is broad-shouldered and muscular, wears her hair “short like a man’s,” wears trousers most of the time and a soldier’s uniform when she’s fighting a war with her men on the front lines.
-The men AND women of Eddis are trained as soldiers and when they are too old to fight, both men and women also help with the sewing (traditionally a woman’s task).
-Irene hunts in her free time while Eugenides is like “no thanks, I’ve already been hunted in Attolia.”
-The male main characters are more resistant to killing... (with the exception of Costis as a soldier)
-The female main characters’ hands are more covered in blood than the male’s. (They did what needed to be done… with the exception of Kamet, who is male-bodied but on one level is the most effeminate of all, who was forbidden to even look at a butter knife or remotely partake in the traditionally masculine activity of defense.
-Eddis’s female attendants are armed just like her guards are.
-Sophos is as softly effeminate, sensitive, emotional, humble, empathetic and bunny-like as they come while looking like a strapping thug.
-Sophos the heir to the throne is imprisoned in his role and only finds psychological and emotional freedom when physically enslaved.
-Kamet is physically enslaved and yet slated to become one of the most powerful men in the empire.
-The Queen of Attolia who wields so much power is initially one of the most enslaved people in the land.
-The frightening, terrifying, savage, ruthless Queen of Attolia is also one of the most vulnerable, delicate, childlike, shy individuals imaginable.
-Costis spends the entirety of KoA feeling or appearing humiliated, embarrassed, chagrined, bumbling and incompetent and then reappears in TaT as the one of the most skilled, competent, strong, strapping survivalists imaginable. If I had to pick one of the main characters to be stranded on a deserted island with, I would choose Costis for sure.
-The Thief of Eddis’s late MOTHER was just as wild, daring, agile and free as her son and what sounds like it would be a male-dominant “profession” clearly was not.
-Apparently, if you’re a royal thief, you can steal all manner of things without getting arrested.
-”Thief” means so much more than one who steals stuff. A thief is a head spy, a manipulator on behalf of state, a magician, a a master of poker, deceit and cunning, an acrobat, a traceuse, a picture of grace and athleticism.
-In almost every other story, the thief is the villain, the bad guy. Here, the Thief is the HERO.
-Irene rejects Nahusaresh, portrayed as the “masculine ideal” (tall, handsome, powerful, etc.) in favor of Gen.
-Sophos rejects the “conveniently beautiful, bird-brained” Berrone in favor of the non-traditionally attractive, brilliant Helen.
-The Queen of Eddis can be found more likely sitting on the steps in front of her throne connecting with her court/people than sitting on her throne and yet she “would still be loved as queen even in a burlap sack.”
-The Queen of Eddis is “not beautiful” in the traditional sense and yet she is so freaking beautiful and her people all agree with me.
-The fashionista of a the group is male (Gen) and apparently has better tastes in clothes than the Queen of Eddis.
-The Queen of Eddis’s prisoner of war is also one of her closest friends (the Magus)
-Eugenides foregoes a marriage to someone who has treated him with kindness and respect (Agape) to marry someone who has permanently disabled him and hurt him the most brutal way imaginable.
-Kamet is Costis’s wife. They are two male-bodied people.
-The physically weakest character is male (Kamet).
-The smallest character is male (Kamet)... headcanon but I feel like this is physically implied by how Kamet gets physically thrown off his feet like... constantly...
-The character who has never even touched a weapon is male. (Kamet)
-The most initially violent and aggressive character is female (Irene).
-The bluntest, most direct character is female. (Helen).
-The most humble, submissive, easily embarrassed character is male. (Sophos)
-The slave (Kamet) is “more educated” than the middle/working class free man (Costis).
-The lead protagonist who wins the most beautiful woman in the land is a small man of color.
-The economically poorest of the city-states (Eddis) is the most utopian, functional and abundant in personal integrity, cooperation and loyalty of its citizens.
-The economically richest nation (Mede Empire) is the poorest in terms of integrity. (I realize this we’re no longer talking about defying archetypes, but simply stating universal ironies.
Can you think of anything I am missing?
-Both the queens are older than their kings.
-Both the queens are more experienced than their kings.
-The female main characters are comfortable in their power while the male main characters are initially hesitant about accepting their power.
-Helen and Irene are predominantly extroverted while Sophos and Eugenides are predominantly introverted.
-The male characters shed far more tears in far more heart-shattering sobs collectively than the female characters across the series although all of them have their emotionally vulnerable moments that cement our love for them.
-Irene is taller than Eugenides.
-The Queen of Eddis carries herself like a soldier, is broad-shouldered and muscular, wears her hair “short like a man’s,” wears trousers most of the time and a soldier’s uniform when she’s fighting a war with her men on the front lines.
-The men AND women of Eddis are trained as soldiers and when they are too old to fight, both men and women also help with the sewing (traditionally a woman’s task).
-Irene hunts in her free time while Eugenides is like “no thanks, I’ve already been hunted in Attolia.”
-The male main characters are more resistant to killing... (with the exception of Costis as a soldier)
-The female main characters’ hands are more covered in blood than the male’s. (They did what needed to be done… with the exception of Kamet, who is male-bodied but on one level is the most effeminate of all, who was forbidden to even look at a butter knife or remotely partake in the traditionally masculine activity of defense.
-Eddis’s female attendants are armed just like her guards are.
-Sophos is as softly effeminate, sensitive, emotional, humble, empathetic and bunny-like as they come while looking like a strapping thug.
-Sophos the heir to the throne is imprisoned in his role and only finds psychological and emotional freedom when physically enslaved.
-Kamet is physically enslaved and yet slated to become one of the most powerful men in the empire.
-The Queen of Attolia who wields so much power is initially one of the most enslaved people in the land.
-The frightening, terrifying, savage, ruthless Queen of Attolia is also one of the most vulnerable, delicate, childlike, shy individuals imaginable.
-Costis spends the entirety of KoA feeling or appearing humiliated, embarrassed, chagrined, bumbling and incompetent and then reappears in TaT as the one of the most skilled, competent, strong, strapping survivalists imaginable. If I had to pick one of the main characters to be stranded on a deserted island with, I would choose Costis for sure.
-The Thief of Eddis’s late MOTHER was just as wild, daring, agile and free as her son and what sounds like it would be a male-dominant “profession” clearly was not.
-Apparently, if you’re a royal thief, you can steal all manner of things without getting arrested.
-”Thief” means so much more than one who steals stuff. A thief is a head spy, a manipulator on behalf of state, a magician, a a master of poker, deceit and cunning, an acrobat, a traceuse, a picture of grace and athleticism.
-In almost every other story, the thief is the villain, the bad guy. Here, the Thief is the HERO.
-Irene rejects Nahusaresh, portrayed as the “masculine ideal” (tall, handsome, powerful, etc.) in favor of Gen.
-Sophos rejects the “conveniently beautiful, bird-brained” Berrone in favor of the non-traditionally attractive, brilliant Helen.
-The Queen of Eddis can be found more likely sitting on the steps in front of her throne connecting with her court/people than sitting on her throne and yet she “would still be loved as queen even in a burlap sack.”
-The Queen of Eddis is “not beautiful” in the traditional sense and yet she is so freaking beautiful and her people all agree with me.
-The fashionista of a the group is male (Gen) and apparently has better tastes in clothes than the Queen of Eddis.
-The Queen of Eddis’s prisoner of war is also one of her closest friends (the Magus)
-Eugenides foregoes a marriage to someone who has treated him with kindness and respect (Agape) to marry someone who has permanently disabled him and hurt him the most brutal way imaginable.
-Kamet is Costis’s wife. They are two male-bodied people.
-The physically weakest character is male (Kamet).
-The smallest character is male (Kamet)... headcanon but I feel like this is physically implied by how Kamet gets physically thrown off his feet like... constantly...
-The character who has never even touched a weapon is male. (Kamet)
-The most initially violent and aggressive character is female (Irene).
-The bluntest, most direct character is female. (Helen).
-The most humble, submissive, easily embarrassed character is male. (Sophos)
-The slave (Kamet) is “more educated” than the middle/working class free man (Costis).
-The lead protagonist who wins the most beautiful woman in the land is a small man of color.
-The economically poorest of the city-states (Eddis) is the most utopian, functional and abundant in personal integrity, cooperation and loyalty of its citizens.
-The economically richest nation (Mede Empire) is the poorest in terms of integrity. (I realize this we’re no longer talking about defying archetypes, but simply stating universal ironies.
Can you think of anything I am missing?
no subject
I would disagree that Irene is extroverted. Does the definition of extroverted mean a person seeks the company of others and is open about their thoughts and feelings? (not sure, but that seems likely.) I see her more as an intensely private person and possibly even painfully shy. She was as a teen, and those kind of personality traits don't always change. She certainly doesn't seem to invite personal questions or welcome discussion that involves feelings. Although tremendous feels--she has them!
This one: -The male main characters are more resistant to killing...
Do you think it's because the men in the books have to do their own killing, while the queens are a bit more removed from it? I admire that Irene forced herself to watch torture and killing, to remind her that these were her own decisions and not something she could pretend wasn't happening.
-Sophos the heir to the throne is imprisoned in his role and only finds psychological and emotional freedom when physically enslaved.
I love this, and how it works in reverse with Kamet. He had no idea how psychologically enslaved he was until he finally could make his own decisions, whether they were right or wrong, including the decision to finally allow himself to be friends with Costis.
-Costis spends the entirety of KoA feeling or appearing humiliated, embarrassed, chagrined, bumbling and incompetent and then reappears in TaT as the one of the most skilled, competent, strong, strapping survivalists imaginable.
The difference between KoA Costis and TaT Costis is so interesting. I felt like Costis was actually exactly the same in both books, as far as behavior, motivations, and outcomes go. The only difference, really, was in the POV. We're in his head in KoA, where in TaT we never see his self doubt or self deprecation. We get a hint of it in TaT in the scene after they escape the slavers and wake up the next day, and it's obvious Costis has been beating himself up all night over his actions, after trying to strangle Kamet and killing the slavers. Ok, now that I've thought about it more, it might also be that in TaT Costis was in well-trained soldier mode, but in KoA everything was new to him and he had no idea what was going on half the time.
-The smallest character is male (Kamet)... headcanon but I feel like this is physically implied by how Kamet gets physically thrown off his feet like... constantly...
Ha, yes. Poor Kamet. Maybe he and Gen are of a similar size but Gen was raised entirely differently. Plus, he's always been pretty fierce, even as a kid. I love it when Ornon thinks of him as a hothead.
LJ won't let me post my entire comment, so I'm splitting it into parts...
no subject
You're right. Irene is totally introverted
I'm rereading QoA right now and there are SOOOOO many times Irene kicks everyone out to sit by herself and think and then there's also that she was a painfully shy child and adolescent.
When I get a moment I'm going to edit my original post. Thanks for pointing it out. I'd put the only real solid extrovert as Helen. I can't really tell with Costis or Kamet.
Costis could be extroverted but he'd be one of the ones who are quiet but not shy. I love some of the parts where it shows how easily he makes friends (for the purpose of deceiving)... and how comfortable he really is... anywhere.
no subject
-Irene rejects Nahusaresh, portrayed as the “masculine ideal” (tall, handsome, powerful, etc.) in favor of Gen.
Funny how she thinks about how attractive N. is when she's getting ready to accept Gen's proposal and at other times when she sees the two men together. It's like, "Yeah, he's handsome but give me my little adorable Eddisian thief, thank you."
-The economically poorest of the city-states (Eddis) is the most utopian, functional and abundant in personal integrity, cooperation and loyalty of its citizens.
Do you suppose it's because they are the poorest? They don't seem to have a class system like the other countries, and when people feel equal they are bound to feel more loyal and cooperative. Look at the progress Irene is making with her military, as she allows non-landowners to move up in the ranks.
I've never thought of Sophos as effeminate. Just young and sensitive. I watched the live action Beauty and the Beast last week and thought, "Oh! Buff!Sophos is a little like the beast." His appearance hides his vulnerability. And Kamet--I guess effeminate is the right word. He's never been exposed to the outdoors or allowed to practice any of the more "masculine" pasttimes, so it's no wonder he can't swim or fight or kill a caggi. Oh, he did kill that snake, didn't he? He deserves some kudos for that. But like you, I tend to think that even given the choice Kamet would always choose comfort and sedate indoor activities.
I could go on and on and on but have to stop now. Great discussion ideas!
no subject
Lol,
(And to make up for all the times she calls Nahuseresh a looker, 'cuz ugh, that was too many times.)no subject
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