A question.

[dawnbluewings.livejournal.com]

So I have a question regarding Gen's family. I know it's been discussed a little before, but we need more in-depth discussion.

How many siblings does Gen have? Where is he in the order of siblings? I always assumed that he was the baby of the family (he seems to have that youngest-child mentality...), especially as what is said about his family is that he has "Brothers and sisters. With the same father." And that "One of [his] brothers is a soldier, and the other is a watchmaker." Now, we know that Sten is older than he, and as Temenus is the same age as Eddis, well, he is obviously older as well.

What I'm really looking for is information on his sisters. More importantly, does he have any younger ones? Given that what is said about his sister is that they are "even married, and honest housewives to boot," I wouldn't think that they would be any younger than he, since <14 seems just a little young to be married and a housewife.




We need this to settle a troublesome discussion with someone about whether or not Gen has a younger sister who might be a Thief. It just seems... doubtfull.

Comments

[etv13.livejournal.com]

I always assumed he was the youngest, too. I also wonder -- do his brothers have a different mother? How is it that he's the one they picked at birth to name Eugenides?

[dawnbluewings.livejournal.com]

"What surprises you?" I asked. "That my father was a soldier? Or that I knew him? Did you think I was illegitimate?"
[Sophos blushes]
I told him that no, I wasn't illegitimate. "I even have brothers and sisters," I told him, "with the same father."

I'm pretty sure that they were full-siblings. Meh. No idea why it was him who was named Eugenides. Maybe Grandpa picked the name for him? Maybe Sten and Tem had been named after folks in the MoW's family, and Mum wanted to name THIS one after her dad?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

Then, once you were named after the god Eugenides, were you destined to be the next King/Queen's thief?

[kilerkki.livejournal.com]

Well, we know that it's a hereditary position, don't we? Gen's grandfather, also named Eugenides, was the Thief; his mother was a thief but not the King's Thief. That seems to indicate that it's a position and title given only to males. (Which makes sense, since they follow/are named after a masculine god.)

Given that, I think it's likely that Grandpa Eugenides (and Mrs. Minister of War) knew that one of the male grandkids would have to be the next Thief. Minister of War might have objected--it seems he wanted Gen to be a soldier rather than a thief--but since we know he quite liked the Thief's daughter, evidently he didn't have insurmountable objections. The first two boys (heir and spare) were off-limits, but after that, Grandpa stakes his claim, and the third boy is the new Eugenides and the next Thief.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I think the only reason Gen's mom was never Thief was because she died before her father did.

Heir and spare :D

[kilerkki.livejournal.com]

Ah, I'd forgotten that her death came before his. (In that case, was she named Eugenides too?)

I have to admit I stole the phrase from someone else. Bujold, maybe?

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

But it's possible that only males could be Thief. Maybe that's why Attolia says one of his sister's children could do it, rather than one of his sisters could.

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

More from new paperback, p. 48:

"When his mother had died, Eugenides hadn't waited to tell his father his intentions to be the next Thief of Eddis."

That almost sounds to me like his mother was in line to be the next thief before she died. And would her father have trained her, if he did, if she hadn't been in line to be Queen's Thief? (I wonder what she did that resulted in her fall... maybe Eugenides the god thought it was time for Eugenides the mortal to come into his position, so his mother had to die?)

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

I never thought, before, about what it may have meant that the god "allowed" Gen's mother to fall, whereas he saved Gen when he slipped on the roof. Very interesting.

[peggy-2.livejournal.com]

(In that case, was she named Eugenides too?)

Eugenie, perhaps?

[aspectabund.livejournal.com]

I wonder... do you take the name when you officially become Thief? That would make more sense. Like, if you happened to be named Harold or something but ended up being the Thief, that wouldn't really work. I mean, "I'm Harold the Thief of Eddis"? Ne-eh.

Especially because Gen said in the Thief that all thieves were named after Eugenides. Therefore, if you were a thief, you took his name.

I don't think I've used the word "thief" enough yet. Thief thief thief. There.

[(Anonymous)]

It's mentioned several times in The Queen of Attolia that Gen is addressed as "Eugenides" as both his given name and his title. Attolia herself points out early in the book that "'The Thieves [of Eddis] often take the name of their god, so it is like a title as well as a name.'"

[puppeteergirl.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with this. The heir and spare thing. Didn't it say in QoA somwhere that the thieves never owned property? That would explain why the heir and spare weren't named Eugenides.

I've wanted to know more about Mrs. Minister of War, and the previous King's Thief for a long time. They sound like very interesting characters. I can imagine the arguments that they had with the MoW over Gen's future.

On the subject of gender...

[kitsune-rains.livejournal.com]

From what we know about Eugenides's mother she seems to fit the whole thief-in-reserve type; an affinity for high places, dancing on roofs, and wasn't there mention of her stealing things?
And yet, Gen mentions past thieves quite a few times in the book, like his "many-times-great-grandfather" who directed the building of the conspiracy room, but he never mentions a grandmother.

[willow-41z.livejournal.com]

Possibly not. This is from QoA, new paperback p. 48:

"She sat and watched him sleep, remembering many other times she'd seen him with bruises. He'd often had them after fights with his cousins. They'd teased him because of his name and teased him more as his grandfather's interest in him grew."

So it doesn't sound like the grandfather's interest was a set thing just because of the name.

[checkers65477.livejournal.com]

You are brilliant tonight. Keep 'em coming.