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drollittle.livejournal.comI’ve been scrounging through past posts and comments looking for discussions of a few ideas and haven’t found quite what I was looking for, so here they are:
1. Back in The Thief, when Eugenides tells the Magus and company the stories of his god, he says that he leaves something out. Have we ever been told what he left out?
Kamet says that part of a tablet is missing from the story of Immakuk and Ennikar—the part that explains exactly how they stole the oil of immortality. Is it possible that these two missing pieces could be connected? Is there a reason why sandal-polisher Eugenides was so interested in Kamet’s Mede mythology? Did the god Eugenides help Immakuk and Ennikar steal (key word: steal) the oil of immortality and does said oil have anything to do with Hamiathes’ Gift?
2. When Kamet has to change his shirt in front of Costis he says something to the effect that “for a moment my secret was visible” (I don’t have the book in front of me now so that might not be an exact quote). On my first reading I assumed he meant the scars on his back from being whipped, but I think he had already said that the scars were visible at the neck of his shift, so maybe he has some other secret? For a few crazy hours I theorized that Kamet might be a woman—after all, the entire book is written in first person so he calls himself “I” not “he,” but then I found the line where he says “I could have been the most powerful man in the empire,” so that theory is probably not true. Any other ideas?
1. Back in The Thief, when Eugenides tells the Magus and company the stories of his god, he says that he leaves something out. Have we ever been told what he left out?
Kamet says that part of a tablet is missing from the story of Immakuk and Ennikar—the part that explains exactly how they stole the oil of immortality. Is it possible that these two missing pieces could be connected? Is there a reason why sandal-polisher Eugenides was so interested in Kamet’s Mede mythology? Did the god Eugenides help Immakuk and Ennikar steal (key word: steal) the oil of immortality and does said oil have anything to do with Hamiathes’ Gift?
2. When Kamet has to change his shirt in front of Costis he says something to the effect that “for a moment my secret was visible” (I don’t have the book in front of me now so that might not be an exact quote). On my first reading I assumed he meant the scars on his back from being whipped, but I think he had already said that the scars were visible at the neck of his shift, so maybe he has some other secret? For a few crazy hours I theorized that Kamet might be a woman—after all, the entire book is written in first person so he calls himself “I” not “he,” but then I found the line where he says “I could have been the most powerful man in the empire,” so that theory is probably not true. Any other ideas?
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Discussing Thick as Thieves (Spoilers)
May. 23rd, 2017 08:20 pmninedaysaqueen.livejournal.comSo, Checkers and I felt we were getting a tad disorganized with our discussions of TaT and overwhelming ourselves, so here's a little order in the chaos. Below are all current Sounis spoiler-y threads for discussing TaT. I will add new ones as we go along. Feel free to start your own thread. Just remember to hide spoilers under an LJ-cut with a clear warning.
This thread will remain "sticky" (at the top) for a few weeks or so, giving everyone a chance to read the book and comment.
( SPOILERS! LOOK AWAY! )
This thread will remain "sticky" (at the top) for a few weeks or so, giving everyone a chance to read the book and comment.
( SPOILERS! LOOK AWAY! )
piartemis18.livejournal.comHello everyone! Been watching the community for several years and figured it was time to log back in to LJ and join up proper, so hi. May see some of you Salt Lake folks tomorrow night!
Ever since I finished TaT Wednesday night I've been pondering the references to gods in the book. Last night (as I'm rereading but haven't gotten very far yet) I had an epiphany that has made me want to list everything I can remember (without my book in front of me) and see what you guys think and if you have any thoughts or additions!
( Read more... )
Ever since I finished TaT Wednesday night I've been pondering the references to gods in the book. Last night (as I'm rereading but haven't gotten very far yet) I had an epiphany that has made me want to list everything I can remember (without my book in front of me) and see what you guys think and if you have any thoughts or additions!
( Read more... )
A quick Lol
May. 17th, 2017 08:14 ampuppeteergirl.livejournal.comSo, when I was taking a pic of my "almost complete" set of books for Instagram to celebrate the release, I played around with the new face features and did this. I'm overly proud of it for some reason.
A Conspiracy of Kings Chapters 17-23
May. 7th, 2017 11:39 amcheckers65477.livejournal.comThis week we finish our community read-along, as we’ve reread all the books to get ready for the release of Thick As Thieves, woohoo! This section covers the last seven chapters of A Conspiracy of Kings, beginning with the change back to to 1st person POV as Sophos says, “ We left Attolia with all the provisions we had missed on our previous journey,” and ending with, “They both laughed.”
This discussion should be spoiler-free for the new short stories and Thick As Thieves. Which we’ll be discussing SOON.
All page numbers I refer to are from the original hardback book.
Although A Conspiracy of Kings is a more linear story than QoA or KoA, these last seven chapters are as complex and layered as any in the series. When I first read them, they seemed straightforward. But, at the same time, I had a vague feeling there was a subtle undercurrent going on, and I was missing something. I gradually realized that feeling was from not realizing how much of what happens in these final chapters is entirely from Sophos’ (ok, with some help from Gen, Irene, Helen and maybe the Magus) plans and manipulations. But Sophos is the key player here and it is his leadership, patience, determination, and even his acting ability that lead to his final success as he assumes the throne and becomes, in every sense, the king of Sounis.
( Read more... )
This discussion should be spoiler-free for the new short stories and Thick As Thieves. Which we’ll be discussing SOON.
All page numbers I refer to are from the original hardback book.
Although A Conspiracy of Kings is a more linear story than QoA or KoA, these last seven chapters are as complex and layered as any in the series. When I first read them, they seemed straightforward. But, at the same time, I had a vague feeling there was a subtle undercurrent going on, and I was missing something. I gradually realized that feeling was from not realizing how much of what happens in these final chapters is entirely from Sophos’ (ok, with some help from Gen, Irene, Helen and maybe the Magus) plans and manipulations. But Sophos is the key player here and it is his leadership, patience, determination, and even his acting ability that lead to his final success as he assumes the throne and becomes, in every sense, the king of Sounis.
( Read more... )
KoA Section Two (Chapters 6-10)
Apr. 2nd, 2017 07:09 amagh-4.livejournal.comWelcome to April, the month before the month of Thick as Thieves! This week, we’re reading from “The stool hit the wall with a satisfying crash” to “Costis returned to his room, freed himself of belt and breastplate, and fell, otherwise fully dressed, onto his bed.” As always, these discussions are spoiler free for “The Wine Shop,” “The Knife Dance,” and the Thick as Thieves arc, but we WILL probably discuss content from all four published books. Page numbers are from the 2006 paperback.
The discussion for the first five chapters is here. Next week, led by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
ibmiller , we will finish the book!
What could possibly happen in a five-chapter chunk that begins and ends in Costis’s room? EVERYTHING.
( Summaries and assorted questions )
philia_fan, whose username came from Chapter Eight. Philia meant a lot to many of us here, and it was very sad to lose her when she passed away five years ago. Her insight shaped my readings of these books as much as her thoughtfulness shaped my experience of this community. So, so, so, shoutout to Philia. <3
The discussion for the first five chapters is here. Next week, led by
ibmiller , we will finish the book!What could possibly happen in a five-chapter chunk that begins and ends in Costis’s room? EVERYTHING.
( Summaries and assorted questions )
----------------------
I'd like to take a moment in this post to acknowledge and remember philia_fan, whose username came from Chapter Eight. Philia meant a lot to many of us here, and it was very sad to lose her when she passed away five years ago. Her insight shaped my readings of these books as much as her thoughtfulness shaped my experience of this community. So, so, so, shoutout to Philia. <3Pompeii exhibit
Dec. 21st, 2016 06:25 pmpuppeteergirl.livejournal.comI recently toured the Pompeii exhibit in Kansas City and had a great time. One thing which was fascinating was the information on how a hypocaust works. I also took some pictures which i thought you all may enjoy. The items on display were authentic, not replicas. The exhibit had TONS of artifacts, in excellent condition. There was also a room depicting what the volcano eruption would have looked like, and showed how long it took. The entire time I was in that room I was thinking about Eugenides's vision in QOA. Pretty terrifying stuff. The final room in the exhibit included the famous figures of the people who died in Pompeii. It felt kind of irreverent to take pictures of them, but you can Google them if you are interested.
( See photos here! )
( See photos here! )
puppeteergirl.livejournal.comExcerpt from CoK:
Sounis turned to the magus. "Did you know?"
"That he was relentless?" The magus finished his question. "Yes. That he had this in mind, no. I did not realize that he disliked the ambassador so much."
"Melheret has a reputation as one of the best swordsmen in the Mede court," a soldier informed them, having overheard. "They say he trained the former ambassador, Nahuseresh."
"Ah," said the magus, understanding at once. "I see that he means to be prepared if he meets him again."
"Surely that's unlikely," said Sounis.
"I don't think unlikely means to him what it does to the rest of us," said the magus.
Sorry magus, I'm starting to agree with Sophos.
Let's do some math, folks!
The Thief 1996
Five years later: QoA 2001
Five years later: KoA 2006
Four years later: CoK 2010
As of yesterday, it has been five years since CoK was released. I think we're due.
Yet, no news. Interviews from MWT have dwindled. Sounis has grown quiet. The majority of posts by its members tend to be about other fandoms, or asking for reading suggestions. Because we have NOTHING to read.
Will Eugenides ever get his revenge? #watchoutpointybeard #swordskillz
Will the Eddisians escape the sacred mountain in time? #ohnolava #zipcodechange
Will we ever find out why the woman in the kitchen still includes sand in certain recipes? #what'swrongwiththegravy #i'mnothungry
Is the poor elephant doomed to wait ten years before he is stolen from a nameless intimidator? #impatientpachyderm #omghowcanistealthat
Will I ever break this cycle of despair when I read those fatal words, "'You gave me the gun.' They both laughed." and realize I just finished the book, with nothing new in sight? #whatnow
I know, I know. Stop whining and go to bed.
This has been a pity party by puppeteergirl. #icandoanythingiwant #smashinginkpots
Proceed with your attempted encouragements or your commiserations below.
Sounis turned to the magus. "Did you know?"
"That he was relentless?" The magus finished his question. "Yes. That he had this in mind, no. I did not realize that he disliked the ambassador so much."
"Melheret has a reputation as one of the best swordsmen in the Mede court," a soldier informed them, having overheard. "They say he trained the former ambassador, Nahuseresh."
"Ah," said the magus, understanding at once. "I see that he means to be prepared if he meets him again."
"Surely that's unlikely," said Sounis.
"I don't think unlikely means to him what it does to the rest of us," said the magus.
Sorry magus, I'm starting to agree with Sophos.
Let's do some math, folks!
The Thief 1996
Five years later: QoA 2001
Five years later: KoA 2006
Four years later: CoK 2010
As of yesterday, it has been five years since CoK was released. I think we're due.
Yet, no news. Interviews from MWT have dwindled. Sounis has grown quiet. The majority of posts by its members tend to be about other fandoms, or asking for reading suggestions. Because we have NOTHING to read.
Will Eugenides ever get his revenge? #watchoutpointybeard #swordskillz
Will the Eddisians escape the sacred mountain in time? #ohnolava #zipcodechange
Will we ever find out why the woman in the kitchen still includes sand in certain recipes? #what'swrongwiththegravy #i'mnothungry
Is the poor elephant doomed to wait ten years before he is stolen from a nameless intimidator? #impatientpachyderm #omghowcanistealthat
Will I ever break this cycle of despair when I read those fatal words, "'You gave me the gun.' They both laughed." and realize I just finished the book, with nothing new in sight? #whatnow
I know, I know. Stop whining and go to bed.
This has been a pity party by puppeteergirl. #icandoanythingiwant #smashinginkpots
Proceed with your attempted encouragements or your commiserations below.
freenarnian.livejournal.comSo, I came across this quote on Tumblr today. How could I NOT think of Eugenides?
“Myths are stories about people who become too big for their lives temporarily, so that they crash into other lives or brush against gods. In crisis their souls are visible.”
- Anne Carson, Introduction to Grief Lessons: Four Plays by Euripides
“Myths are stories about people who become too big for their lives temporarily, so that they crash into other lives or brush against gods. In crisis their souls are visible.”
- Anne Carson, Introduction to Grief Lessons: Four Plays by Euripides
Gods & Thieves do as they please
Dec. 19th, 2013 09:22 pmcanonisrelative.livejournal.comRight, so I was unsure which of the tags was most fitting of "Oh hey this random thing reminds me of Eugenides and I just had to share!" BUT!
Some of you must enjoy the Marvel/Avengers movies, yes/yes? I have only recently fallen head over heels for them and heartily recommend Thor 2 for anyone looking for some epic adventure sprinkled liberally with witty banter, sibling angst and general hilarity.
And Loki. Oh, Loki.
So this thing has been going around, inspired by ...
( You may see where I'm going with this... )
Some of you must enjoy the Marvel/Avengers movies, yes/yes? I have only recently fallen head over heels for them and heartily recommend Thor 2 for anyone looking for some epic adventure sprinkled liberally with witty banter, sibling angst and general hilarity.
And Loki. Oh, Loki.
So this thing has been going around, inspired by ...
( You may see where I'm going with this... )
Hurricane Sandy
Oct. 27th, 2012 07:05 pm1221bookworm.livejournal.comAs we prepare for Hurricane Sandy's impact, we hope that allowing her to blow out her frustrations on the Eastern seaboard will allow her to calm down, and perhaps begin to see Eugenides in a new, better light. (Or at least give him a few sand free days as she is busy elsewhere!!:)
( More Hurricane names ... )
Tags:
- agape,
- aris,
- costis,
- crack,
- dite,
- galen,
- gen,
- general discussion,
- general insanity,
- gods and goddesses,
- helen,
- humor,
- irene,
- kamet,
- medes,
- minister of war,
- nahuseresh,
- names,
- ornon,
- phresine,
- relius,
- sophos,
- teleus
puppeteergirl.livejournal.comUhhh...I was searching for a fanart of Gen that someone here drew (the one where he looks really cocky and is twirling something around his finger - it was a sketch) and I couldn't find it, so I googled "gen the thief" on the images search. I found this:
http://greenwillowblog.com/?p=1861
Some AWESOME artwork drawn up! *Sigh* if the right people got their hands on this series, it would be EPIC. The question is, do I want QT to go mainstream? I'm kinda happy with it being slightly obscure. There are also so many ways to TOTALLY mess the story up (dumbing it down for the masses) that make me nervous whenever anyone says, "This should be a movie!".
I'm half "OMG SQUEE!" and half, "Keep your PAWS off my favorite books!"
Opinions? Help with finding that fanart?
UPDATE:
Still haven't been able to find that pic...I think I'm getting obsessed with this... <:-/
Eugenides and Lyopidus
Mar. 31st, 2012 09:48 amshelver506.livejournal.comI had to stop my re-read of The Thief to catch up on my reviews for my blog, but when I picked it back up again this week, I caught something I hadn't before. Remember the story Gen tells about Eugenides and his brother Lyopidus and the fire?
For a time, Eugenides evaded his request [to do something awesome], but Lyopidus built up his arrogance, telling him over and over how clever he had been to defeat the Sky God, how much more clever he could be if he just put his mind to it. For instance, he could steal the thunderbolts again, just for a lark, and then return them to Hephestia. (p. 118 of my edition)
I read this and thought, gosh, this sounds familiar. In QoA, Gen is his own Lyopidus. He stole the Gift; therefore, he's a master thief. He keeps telling himself he'll never be caught, never be outmaneuvered. He toys with Sounis, with Attolia, "just for a lark."
In the legend, Lyopidus' pushing sets the world on fire and he dies. In QoA, Gen's bravado and Attolia's subsequent actions set the countries on fire with the flames of war. Gen's cousins die, leaving him as bereft as Eugenides over Lyopidus. And the gods have their hands in both stories.
Clearly, it's not a perfect analogy (no god was "out to get" Gen like the Sky was after Eugenides, etc.), but it did give me a pause.
For a time, Eugenides evaded his request [to do something awesome], but Lyopidus built up his arrogance, telling him over and over how clever he had been to defeat the Sky God, how much more clever he could be if he just put his mind to it. For instance, he could steal the thunderbolts again, just for a lark, and then return them to Hephestia. (p. 118 of my edition)
I read this and thought, gosh, this sounds familiar. In QoA, Gen is his own Lyopidus. He stole the Gift; therefore, he's a master thief. He keeps telling himself he'll never be caught, never be outmaneuvered. He toys with Sounis, with Attolia, "just for a lark."
In the legend, Lyopidus' pushing sets the world on fire and he dies. In QoA, Gen's bravado and Attolia's subsequent actions set the countries on fire with the flames of war. Gen's cousins die, leaving him as bereft as Eugenides over Lyopidus. And the gods have their hands in both stories.
Clearly, it's not a perfect analogy (no god was "out to get" Gen like the Sky was after Eugenides, etc.), but it did give me a pause.
The Lions of Sounis
Mar. 2nd, 2012 09:56 pmshelver506.livejournal.comThe gate was made out of blocks of stone bigger across than I am tall. Something else supposedly built by the old gods, it was topped by a solid stone lintel with two carved lions that were supposed to roar if an enemy of the king passed beneath them . . . They remained silent as we passed under.
Another passage I've been wondering about. Why do you suppose the lions didn't roar? I've come up with a few possible reasons.
1) The Sounisian old gods are different from Eddisian old gods and therefore do not exist (this presumes theistic system that excludes ALL other gods, new, Mede, and Attolian gods included).
2) MWT sets up the scene as a way to invalidate all mythological systems in order to make the later appearance of the gods that much more shocking. Any in-world reason for the lions not roaring is conveniently neglected in order to make the proper plot statement.
3) The gods recognize Eugenides, not the current Sounis, as the proper king due to his future title of Annux. (This presumes a theistic system featuring at least one omniscient god [as opposed to Moira, who has only partial foresight.])
Thoughts?
Another passage I've been wondering about. Why do you suppose the lions didn't roar? I've come up with a few possible reasons.
1) The Sounisian old gods are different from Eddisian old gods and therefore do not exist (this presumes theistic system that excludes ALL other gods, new, Mede, and Attolian gods included).
2) MWT sets up the scene as a way to invalidate all mythological systems in order to make the later appearance of the gods that much more shocking. Any in-world reason for the lions not roaring is conveniently neglected in order to make the proper plot statement.
3) The gods recognize Eugenides, not the current Sounis, as the proper king due to his future title of Annux. (This presumes a theistic system featuring at least one omniscient god [as opposed to Moira, who has only partial foresight.])
Thoughts?
Cause, Effect, and Author's Intent
Feb. 28th, 2012 06:53 pmshelver506.livejournal.comI've always wondered when reading a book as twisty as The Thief or its sequels how exactly certain details fall into place. For instance, in the very beginning, we read this moment between the Magus and Gen:
"We might someday attain a relationship of mutual respect," he said softly. First, I thought, I will see gods walking the earth.
Obviously, exactly that happens. The gods walk, then mutual respect. But which chronology is more likely? Did MWT scribble this fairly common figure of speech down and then coincidentally make it come true later? Did she scribble it down and then later go "Oh! I can use that!"? Did she place the figure of speech in the paragraph purposely, having already anticipated what would happen next? Or did she write the later stuff, then go back and slip the phrase in during edits?
Granted, this is a fairly simple example and the penultimate option is the most likely. But in general, which do you all think happens the most? I can't come up with other examples at the moment.
"We might someday attain a relationship of mutual respect," he said softly. First, I thought, I will see gods walking the earth.
Obviously, exactly that happens. The gods walk, then mutual respect. But which chronology is more likely? Did MWT scribble this fairly common figure of speech down and then coincidentally make it come true later? Did she scribble it down and then later go "Oh! I can use that!"? Did she place the figure of speech in the paragraph purposely, having already anticipated what would happen next? Or did she write the later stuff, then go back and slip the phrase in during edits?
Granted, this is a fairly simple example and the penultimate option is the most likely. But in general, which do you all think happens the most? I can't come up with other examples at the moment.
Duh Moment
Dec. 21st, 2011 04:09 pmtheorangethief.livejournal.comThe other day I was reading a greek mythology book and it hit me, Miras, you know Costis' god of light and arrows, is just like Apollo. Coincidence? I think not. It hit me so suddenly that I jumped and my teacher asked if I was ok.
Has anyone else had any Duh moments concerning QT lately?
Has anyone else had any Duh moments concerning QT lately?
The Goddess at the end of QoA?
Jun. 29th, 2011 10:03 pmannalibelle.livejournal.com I'm new, so I don't know whether this has already been discussed but...
So at the end of QoA, Eugenides sacrifices to the gods, but Moira tells him that the gods have no messages for him. Then another goddess speaks to him and shows him the dream about the volcano.
Who is that godess? It can't be Moira because she was just there, and she is "standing between Eugenides and the Great Goddess" so she's not Hephestia. Is she the goddess mentioned in the Eddis short story?
-Thanks,
Annali
So at the end of QoA, Eugenides sacrifices to the gods, but Moira tells him that the gods have no messages for him. Then another goddess speaks to him and shows him the dream about the volcano.
Who is that godess? It can't be Moira because she was just there, and she is "standing between Eugenides and the Great Goddess" so she's not Hephestia. Is she the goddess mentioned in the Eddis short story?
-Thanks,
Annali
Crisis of Faith
Mar. 26th, 2011 03:36 pmstubefied-by-gd.livejournal.comCrazededdisian's most recent comments on the post about Costis got me thinking more about The Jump from the palace roof at the beginning of QoA again, in relation to the line in KoA we were discussing when Gen says if he tried it now he's probably eviscerate himself, which is of course true - and also in relation to two more things:
1. A line someone else delivers, probably Ornon, about how Gen had confessed to them that he often thought the distance was beyond him, but he did it anyway, which I always took to be a sign of utter faith in his god - that, as he was in his role of thief, he was safe unless his god willed otherwise
2. The king telling Costis he has a "superstitious fear of falling" at the top of the stairs after the assassination attempt, when Gen shouldn't be afraid of falling down stairs, because his belief is that the won't do that until his god is done with him, unless he's so rattled by the attack that he's afraid his time is up
Now, I always thought Gen's faith was firm all through KoA. I mean, the gods pretty much told him just a few months ago exactly why they had done everything that looked like forsaking him. The walking around on the parapets was a demonstration of that faith, right? But now I'm wondering.
So. "I would probably eviscerate myself." Is it just being realistic for once, or is it an admission that he's a bit worried at the moment that his god is done preserving him? And what does it mean in the context of the rest of that scene?
I know each of these things has been discussed before, but have they been looked at together?
1. A line someone else delivers, probably Ornon, about how Gen had confessed to them that he often thought the distance was beyond him, but he did it anyway, which I always took to be a sign of utter faith in his god - that, as he was in his role of thief, he was safe unless his god willed otherwise
2. The king telling Costis he has a "superstitious fear of falling" at the top of the stairs after the assassination attempt, when Gen shouldn't be afraid of falling down stairs, because his belief is that the won't do that until his god is done with him, unless he's so rattled by the attack that he's afraid his time is up
Now, I always thought Gen's faith was firm all through KoA. I mean, the gods pretty much told him just a few months ago exactly why they had done everything that looked like forsaking him. The walking around on the parapets was a demonstration of that faith, right? But now I'm wondering.
So. "I would probably eviscerate myself." Is it just being realistic for once, or is it an admission that he's a bit worried at the moment that his god is done preserving him? And what does it mean in the context of the rest of that scene?
I know each of these things has been discussed before, but have they been looked at together?
